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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mephista" data-source="post: 9840241" data-attributes="member: 6786252">So, here's the thing about 3e's Vestiges. They basically didn't exist. It's not that they were dead, its that they somehow slipped out of reality and into a weird limbo-non-state.For example, one of them was based on buddhist monk that managed to escape the cycle of life and death... but made an oopsie and ended up as a technically-non-existant-vestige instead of dying. They just vanished and turned into a Vestige.Teneborous was being treated as a separate entity than Orcus, even though he was a divine form of Orcus. Once that divinity was stripped, Orcus returned and the remnants of that divinity formed into a pseudo-spirit non-existence.Kas is weird, because his status changes depending on the edition. Vecna and he both ended up in Ravenloft at one point, but Vecna escaped and became a god - no word on what happened to Kas's domain. 3e made him into a Vestige, but 4e came back and said, no, he's alive and existing. Just an edition change quirk.3e made vestiges primarily because the writers wanted something that would let you mix and match summons without needing to worry about the stigma of being a devil summoner or a ghost-caller, and the like. Vestiges were very specifically made to not interact with the rest of D&D cosmology. So, you ended up with a lot of stuff that referenced various bits of the real world as a joke, or some old D&D lore. It didn't really matter a ton if it contradicted other established bits of lore, because vestiges were all a self-contained sandbox.Note that all this is incompatible with how 4e did Vestiges, which were just super-ghosts from a specific human kingdom drawn from the Points-of-Light setting. Or Critical Role's use of vestiges as a kind of magical item.  I'm also fairly sure this is not the first time that 5e used "vestige" to refer to dead gods. Don't remember where it came up before though.</blockquote>

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