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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6288312" data-attributes="member: 4937"><p>Ok, consider the following:</p><p></p><p>a) A sewer system.</p><p>b) A caves complex.</p><p>c) A tomb.</p><p>d) An underground temple.</p><p>e) A dwarven fortress</p><p>f) An underground city.</p><p>g) An undercity with a layer of streets and buildings in the 'basement' of the city.</p><p></p><p>Dungeons or not, despite not being literal jails?</p><p></p><p>Now, how far down the size scale do you have to be?</p><p></p><p>a) An oubliette beneath a ruined tower. Dungeon or not?</p><p>b) A single shaft mine dug by a prospector. Dungeon or not?</p><p>c) A small sepulchre chamber of perhaps 1-6 rooms, similar in scale to King Tut's tomb or smaller. Dungeon or not?</p><p>e) An underground shrine encompasing a single room with a floorplan similar to a greek or egyptian temple. Dungeon or not?</p><p>f) A cellar or basement of a ruined home. Dungeon or not?</p><p></p><p>What's the minimum number of rooms in a dungeon?</p><p></p><p>And again, suppose we take the map of a dungeon and we move the whole complex above ground. The thing you agreed was a dungeon - such as a trap filled tomb - is now an above ground mosuleum. If it's not a dungeon now, what is it? And is the above ground ruins or castle also part of the dungeon, and if so, does it remain a dungeon when we remove the basement?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Suppose the bridge was say 120' long, and there were multiple encounters along its lenght, and also in its superstructure (the rafters) and substructure (the ravine and stream it bridged, and the trestle that supported it)? How extensive does it have to be before it is not an 'encounter location' and becomes a more complex lair, with say a giant spider, a troll, a trap (rotten floor), a giant carp, and so forth?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I voted 50% but noted I considered this below the ideal. Some encounters occur without a map, even when a map would be preferable. Some encounters however occur outside of any enclosing space, and so are not a dungeon. An encounter in an open field, in an arbitrary city street, or while flying, isn't in a dungeon. An encounter in an enclosing space, but which has been improvised and has no clear connection to anything else - say suddenly a fight breaks out in the throne room but I have no map of the palace or a fight breaks out in the withdrawing room but I have no map of the town home - isn't in a dungeon though technically it probably should be.</p><p></p><p>I should note that on one level I agree with you. It's possible to reach 100%. Anything can be a dungeon. I once came up with a design for a castaway style desert island that as designed was one large dungeon in a clever disguise.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6288312, member: 4937"] Ok, consider the following: a) A sewer system. b) A caves complex. c) A tomb. d) An underground temple. e) A dwarven fortress f) An underground city. g) An undercity with a layer of streets and buildings in the 'basement' of the city. Dungeons or not, despite not being literal jails? Now, how far down the size scale do you have to be? a) An oubliette beneath a ruined tower. Dungeon or not? b) A single shaft mine dug by a prospector. Dungeon or not? c) A small sepulchre chamber of perhaps 1-6 rooms, similar in scale to King Tut's tomb or smaller. Dungeon or not? e) An underground shrine encompasing a single room with a floorplan similar to a greek or egyptian temple. Dungeon or not? f) A cellar or basement of a ruined home. Dungeon or not? What's the minimum number of rooms in a dungeon? And again, suppose we take the map of a dungeon and we move the whole complex above ground. The thing you agreed was a dungeon - such as a trap filled tomb - is now an above ground mosuleum. If it's not a dungeon now, what is it? And is the above ground ruins or castle also part of the dungeon, and if so, does it remain a dungeon when we remove the basement? Suppose the bridge was say 120' long, and there were multiple encounters along its lenght, and also in its superstructure (the rafters) and substructure (the ravine and stream it bridged, and the trestle that supported it)? How extensive does it have to be before it is not an 'encounter location' and becomes a more complex lair, with say a giant spider, a troll, a trap (rotten floor), a giant carp, and so forth? I voted 50% but noted I considered this below the ideal. Some encounters occur without a map, even when a map would be preferable. Some encounters however occur outside of any enclosing space, and so are not a dungeon. An encounter in an open field, in an arbitrary city street, or while flying, isn't in a dungeon. An encounter in an enclosing space, but which has been improvised and has no clear connection to anything else - say suddenly a fight breaks out in the throne room but I have no map of the palace or a fight breaks out in the withdrawing room but I have no map of the town home - isn't in a dungeon though technically it probably should be. I should note that on one level I agree with you. It's possible to reach 100%. Anything can be a dungeon. I once came up with a design for a castaway style desert island that as designed was one large dungeon in a clever disguise. [/QUOTE]
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