Dusk Hindrances revisited.

IndyPendant

First Post
I am about to introduce my players to the Dusk concept of Hindrances; before I do, I thought I would post what I've done so far here for comments and suggestions. My thanks to Dusk for the concept.

Hindrances are a special class of Feats essentially stolen directly from the Dusk website at http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/hosted/Dusk/index.php, with a few of my own additions and alterations. They are entirely optional, must be taken at 1st level, and each character is limited to a maximum of one Hindrance. (The exception is the Class Feature Removal hindrance; see below.) They are designed to provide a penalty that is somewhat more severe than their corresponding beneficial feat would be. (For example, Frailty compared to Toughness.) Currently, there are only a few feats available as Hindrances, but I hope to add to this list as time goes on. Suggestions are more than welcome as usual, but keep in mind they must be worse than any matching beneficial Feat. The benefit to taking a Hindrance is that the character then gets a bonus Feat of their choice. If the player later decides he no longer wants the Hindrance, he can use up a regular Feat selection to remove it.

Class Feature Removal [Hindrance]
You lack an ability typical of your class.
Hindrance: Each class has certain features that, while highly useful, aren't at the essential core of the class. If you take this hindrance you lose all the features listed for the class given below. This feat may only be selected once per character, but it does not count against the one Hindrance limit allowed per character. You must meet the level requirements listed to select the Hindrance; all the benefits listed after on the same line are then removed from your character. If you later multiclass to a class that grants the lost abilities, they remain lost. The abilities can only be regained by expending a feat slot (and hence undoing the hindrance).

Barbarian 1+: Fast Move and Medium Armor proficiency.
Barbarian 2+: All ‘Uncanny Dodge’ abilities.
Bard 1+: All Armour and Shield proficiencies.
Cleric 1+: Shield, Heavy Armour, and Medium Armour proficiencies.
Cleric 1+: Turn/Rebuke Undead and 1 Domain selection.
Druid 1+: All Armor and Shield proficiencies.
Druid 5+: All ‘Wild Shape’ abilities.
Fighter 1+: Shield, Heavy Armour, and Medium Armour proficiencies.
Monk 1+: Stunning Attack and Unarmoured Speed.
Paladin 1+: Shield, Heavy Armour, and Medium Armour proficiencies.
Paladin 3+: Turn Undead and Cure Disease.
Paladin 5+: Special Mount.
Ranger: [Must wait until the 3.5e Ranger arrives.]
Rogue 3+: All ‘Uncanny Dodge’ abilities.
Sorcerer 1+: Summon Familiar.
Wizard 1+: Summon Familiar.

Frail [Hindrance]
You are easily hurt.
Prerequisites: Con 11 or less.
Hindrance: When Rolling for the hit points for a class you always use the next worst die: d4's become d3's, d6's become d4's, etc.

Unluckiness [Hindrance]
You are not as lucky as you should be.
Hindrance: Each of your saving throws (Will, Fortitude, Reflex) have a -1 penalty, after all other modifiers. In addition, you can never select any Feats that provide bonuses to saving throws, such as Luck of Heroes, Iron Will, or School Resistance.

Unskilled [Hindrance]
You have fewer skills than normal.
Prerequisites: Int 11 or less.
Hindrance: You have 4 fewer skill points at 1st level, and 1 fewer skill point for every level thereafter. You can reduce your number of skills per level to zero through this feat. In addition, you can never select any feats that provide bonuses to skills, such as Alertness, Combat Casting, or Skill Focus.

Weakness (To be renamed) [Hindrance]
You do not have as good a chance of evading negative effects as others of your class.
Special: You must have 2 levels in a single class to take this Feat. This is an exception to the rule that you must take a Hindrance at 1st level, but it does count as the one hindrance allowed per character.
Hindrance: Choose one single ‘Good’ saving throw for a class you have achieved at least 2 levels in. That saving throw is now considered a ‘Bad’ saving throw for that character. (For example, a 2nd level Fighter would normally have a +3 bonus to all Fortitude saves. With this Hindrance, his Fortitude saving throw bonus would become +0.) This effect applies to multiclass characters as well; so, for example, if a 3rd-level Fighter multiclassed to a Druid at 4th level, his total Fortitude bonus would be only +1. (He would still get the +2 bonus to Will saves provided by the Druid level 1, however.)
 

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Some thoughts:

I think for barbarians losing Uncanny Dodge is not much of a loss, esp if you are only thinking of taking 2 levels of barbarian, losing the UDodge still leaves you with a bigger HD, more skills, Rage, fast movement, and now 1 feat of your choosing. Seems like a good thing to mix with fighter levels. The same applies to the rogue, losing UDodge is worth less than a feat (imo) and that is against the grain of what hindrances are for.

In the same vein, making a barbarian lose Fast Movement AND Medium Armor Prof is too much. Fast movement alone is worth 2 WotC feats (Dash taken twice). Furthermore, the monk losing all of his increased speed is much more of a blow, taking away Stunning Strike in addition insures that this Hindrance is too nasty.

The armor hindrances are interesting, especially because they do not hinder any multiclassing with monk, wizard, or sorceror (generally speaking). Of course, you may say that multiclass combinations with those classes are weaker inherently, so giving them something back is not necessarily overpowered.

Finally the Weakness Hindrance seems wayyy too harsh on most characters. Alternately, the monk can easily afford to give up one of his 3 good saves for a free feat.

I have a post on character customization which may shed some light on my own class balancing philosophies.

Technik
 


Hehe, I get ONE response to my post. Bah. Thanks, Technik4. Actually, I introduced some of my players to the concept of Hindrances last night, saying that they're still very much a work in progress, and I left out Class Feature Removal since I agree it needed a *lot* of work.

They basically went 'Gah!' 'Augh!' 'Those penalties are *nasty*!' --And one flat-out told me not to bother trying to make them work; no one's going to use them--especially with my bonus-feat system I'm testing out on them.

So, I guess I can let Hindrances go. : )

--As an aside, I found your post, Technik4, and it does look more developed than mine--but also about as unbalanced I'm afraid. Good concept, but it needs work and playtesting before it's ready--and it's somewhat more complex than what I was looking for, so I'm not going to implement it in my game. Thanks though, and have fun!
 

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