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<blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 3246754" data-attributes="member: 13966">The saving throw entry would say &quot;Fortitude partial&quot; or &quot;Fortitude negates (see text)&quot; if it meant that only the stench was negated by a save.&nbsp; Instead it says just &quot;Fortitude negates&quot; in the Saving Throw line, therefore the entire spell is negated if the target succeeds on a Fortitude save.&nbsp; If they fail that, then it takes effect on them, and nearby creatures are then allowed a Fortitude save to avoid nausea from the stench, as noted in the description.There is no clause in the description stating that the stench occurs regardless of whether or not the target is stricken or makes their own saving throw, therefore the stench is negated too if the target makes the Fort save.Note that Hold Person is 3rd-level for sorcerers and wizards, whereas Ghoul Touch is 2nd-level, yet Ghoul Touch has the greater effect normally; thus why it requires both a touch attack and a saving throw, and then allows other victims nearby a saving throw of their own against the secondary effect.&nbsp; And before 3.5, Hold Person was more likely than Ghoul Touch to succeed fully (since it only allowed one save then, and had pretty good range; of course 3.5 neutered Hold Person to be hardly worthwhile).Now Ghoul Touch is clearly superior, but the fact that it has more than one way to fail is its balancing factor, just as Disintegrate allows a Fortitude save even though it also needs a ranged touch attack.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Arkhandus, post: 3246754, member: 13966"] The saving throw entry would say "Fortitude partial" or "Fortitude negates (see text)" if it meant that only the stench was negated by a save. Instead it says just "Fortitude negates" in the Saving Throw line, therefore the entire spell is negated if the target succeeds on a Fortitude save. If they fail that, then it takes effect on them, and nearby creatures are then allowed a Fortitude save to avoid nausea from the stench, as noted in the description. There is no clause in the description stating that the stench occurs regardless of whether or not the target is stricken or makes their own saving throw, therefore the stench is negated too if the target makes the Fort save. Note that Hold Person is 3rd-level for sorcerers and wizards, whereas Ghoul Touch is 2nd-level, yet Ghoul Touch has the greater effect normally; thus why it requires both a touch attack and a saving throw, and then allows other victims nearby a saving throw of their own against the secondary effect. And before 3.5, Hold Person was more likely than Ghoul Touch to succeed fully (since it only allowed one save then, and had pretty good range; of course 3.5 neutered Hold Person to be hardly worthwhile). Now Ghoul Touch is clearly superior, but the fact that it has more than one way to fail is its balancing factor, just as Disintegrate allows a Fortitude save even though it also needs a ranged touch attack. [/QUOTE]

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