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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Soultpp" data-source="post: 6930839" data-attributes="member: 6822710">This sounds about what I was looking for, but I have to ask why the cost?  I assume its just set by the trap rules.  I would have to lower that if possible, and I may consider lowering the dmg but adding a secondary bull rush for the concussive force (since fireball is clearly stated as not having a shockwave)A couple points I'd like to respond to here.  First off, gas explosion is canon in at least the Forgotten Realms universe, it was used to blast apart a whole mountain top in one of the novels.  That being said, the gas would be assumed to be far too rare to replicate that more than once in an age as the circumstances for it were unique, and the mind behind it was also an accomplished alchemist and had a whole clan of dwarven craftsmen as well as one special dwarven doodad <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  to actually make it happen safely.  As for the whole 'you can't do anything without magic' thing, that seems a specious argument meant to avoid the issue to me.  I understand and accept some difference in world physics but just saying 'magic only' grants all of the tinkerers and craftsmen a useless vocation.  Some things maybe, and I would agree that this would be a case of 'lesser result than magic' perhaps.  Also there is a distinct difference between magical and non-magical fires, with magical ones generally being much stronger than an equivalent non-magical one. I wasn't suggesting anything like making gunpowder though.  In fact, that exists in many realms already in the form of smoke powder.  And I would never do something like trying to bring modern guns into a fantasy setting since that contravenes the spirit of the setting choice in the first place.  (Though any gun can be insanely easily defeated by a simple heat metal spell, and likely causing explosive damage to the wielder in the process.) Beyond that, if the players want to use guns, why not just play in a modern setting?Also things like liquid flammables exist and are utilized by the rules in a mirror of real world physics (making a vial of lamp oil into a Molotov, for example).I also want to say that I as a player would never rely on this one trick to get out of everything.  Sure it might work once, maybe even twice, but there are a lot of creatures that, even if they aren't immune to magical fires, are immune to non-magical ones and as a player, if I abused a single trick too often, or even after the first try, I would expect the DM to bring in such creatures to counter it or even use it against me as well.  As a DM, that is exactly what I would do, though I might wait to see if it was a 'one off' brilliant tactical move, or if the players were becoming dependent on this 'non-magical fireball'. I would also point out that, at its basest, cheapest cost this trap would never match a wizard's fireball in efficacy because of the severe restrictions on location one would need to get a good blast and the fact that, as the components are listed without GP cost, the spell itself is essentially free as well and so insanely more cost effective than the non-magical equivalent and further upgrade-able for no additional GP cost via metamagic feats.Also, as far as air supply in caves...  Why else would they have made rules regarding suffocation?As for fireball using up all the oxygen...  It depends on the DM really, in the one example from our group in which this could have been an issue, the point was moot as the fireball killed almost all of the party when cast.  (That will tend to happen when it is cast by a wizard from the back of the party in a 5x5 room/hallway.)  If there had been a side effect such as a cave in just prior to the casting, then this it would have been a logical question to ask as it would have been a serious concern.</blockquote>

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