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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Soultpp" data-source="post: 6934356" data-attributes="member: 6822710">No, you do not have me right.  I am NOT trying to replace magic or even recreate fireball with mundane means.  I even agreed that lowering the damage number was acceptable and for all the reasons given.I agree with you, unlimited access to some forms of magic would be quite game breaking, like a high lvl wizard is.How would a character in game know that such a thing as flour exploding was possible, or at least know to start experimenting with it?  Simple, they worked at, or lived near, a grainery/flour mill where it happened on a large scale. It would be reasonable to assume that a large scale explosion like that could be paired down to a small focused burst.Having seen signs of an explosion on a massive scale and after spending years (as part of their training in trapmaking) they could learn that they need a finer grind, which while maybe not common, is still possible.Characters exist before the game starts, they don't start as babies.  So they will have experienced many things that the DM hasn't thought of.No one is trying to break the the game by arguing for "magic" effects achieved without magic.  And I am trying to play the game as it stands.  Traps exist, and I am trying to find ways to make that useful in a game setting.  Furthermore I already agreed that it would never achieve the same level of power as magic could, furthermore this way is far more expensive than just learning to cast fireball would be.  YES I am trying to find non-magical alternatives, but NOT because I'm trying to break anything but because I believe, in the context of a 'real world with magic' that there would be SOME people who would try to do that, even if the results cannot, could NEVER match what a wizard of even minor levels could achieve.  This is the reason I came HERE, to keep it within appropriate power levels because I thought there would be people who would be helpful in making it work as a minor effect usable once in a while for a minor advantage at that time, which is something any clever character would look for, magical or not.  Obviously this would be abandoned as soon as a reliable magical method came into hand as that would always be stronger and more efficient to use, not to mention that I envisioned it as something that was never going to be efficient past lvl2-3 tops. Beyond the cost there are several more drawbacks to this that would make it impractical vs a magical solution.  First is the encumbrance of carrying around several pounds of flour without something like a bag of holding.  Second is the time it would take to set it up, this is never something that could be done in the middle of combat as it would likely take several rounds, if not whole minutes, to set up. Third is that no matter how well it was set up, it would always have a failure chance when it actually was triggered.I am NOT trying to make a 6k dmg per round barbarian here by abusing rules and effects that should never have been stack-able.  I AM just trying to find creative things to do with a less common character concept.First off, when did I EVER say I wanted something that strong? I may have agreed that what delericho posted to help me was similar to what I was looking for, but I also stated that I would likely have to reduce the damage. I also agreed later on that the damage probably shouldn't be more than maybe 1d6, which is half what alchemist's fire can do, though this situation is slightly more powerful only because it is a large area of effect, though far LESS powerful in that it happens once, then takes forever (in combat terms) to attempt to set up again, and even then it would likely only ever be doable at a doorway which further limits the practicality.Secondly, why would something involving flour, a little fire, and and a bit of ingenuity require alchemy, and WHY would it ever be way more more difficult than than things far more practical and effective?  I COULD have just had this trap dumping a vial or several of AF on the person triggering it, but I felt that the dust explosion was a little more interesting and creative.  I thought creativity is what these games were supposed to be about?</blockquote>

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