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<blockquote data-quote="Gadget" data-source="post: 5781599" data-attributes="member: 23716">First, I think this is a very unlikely scenario, yet I have to admit I am actually am quite taken with this idea.&nbsp; I remember in the lead up to 4e some of the devs where quoted as &quot;wanting to make race matter&quot; as opposed to a few mechanical Bonni that don't really matter much beyond the first few levels.&nbsp; Basically, you ended up playing a wizard with pointy ears and penchant for song &amp; dance; or a short, bearded, &amp; gruff fighter with a Scottish accent an penchant for using the axe.&nbsp; 4e largely failed to deliver on this idea, although racial powers may have been a step in the right direction.&nbsp; Now, much can be done with good flavor and role-playing, but if you're going to have the mechanical burden of 'race' in the rules, it should pull its wait mechanically. D&amp;D has always been, at it's strongest, a game of fantasy archetypes.&nbsp; Things like 'dwarves' and 'elves' are fairly strong fantasy archetypes, even if we don't always agree on the precise definition or implementation of said archetypes.&nbsp; They need be no more the 'same' as one fighter or wizard is the the 'same' as any other.&nbsp; Post D20 D&amp;D has shone many ways to differentiate various members of the same class from each other mechanically, not to mention by role playing.As to races all being a bunch of unrealistic cookie-cutters, I really can't agree.&nbsp; The PC generation rules, IMHO, are not the place to do the heavy lifting for fantasy world-building in this manner.&nbsp; It can be assumed that there are clergy of the the Goddess of Love and Wisdom in the world without the base system showing how you take away weapon &amp; armor abilities, add in these spells and skills, remove that, etc.&nbsp; The base 'cleric' is assumed to be the typical 'adventuring cleric', with a few feats domain/granted powers &amp; spell choices to individualize.&nbsp; The same could be said for the racial classes, depending on how they are done.&nbsp; This hardly prevents the idea of dwarven wizards (or artificers, or rune-priests or such) or elven clerics or whatever.&nbsp; It merely makes these concepts largely NPCs, or possibly explored in add on modules in the much ballyhooed complexity dial.&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;Having said all of the above, I still reiterate that I think it is unlikely that we will get a return to racial classes, so I don't think there is much need to get to worked up yet if you really hate the idea.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Gadget, post: 5781599, member: 23716"] First, I think this is a very unlikely scenario, yet I have to admit I am actually am quite taken with this idea. I remember in the lead up to 4e some of the devs where quoted as "wanting to make race matter" as opposed to a few mechanical Bonni that don't really matter much beyond the first few levels. Basically, you ended up playing a wizard with pointy ears and penchant for song & dance; or a short, bearded, & gruff fighter with a Scottish accent an penchant for using the axe. 4e largely failed to deliver on this idea, although racial powers may have been a step in the right direction. Now, much can be done with good flavor and role-playing, but if you're going to have the mechanical burden of 'race' in the rules, it should pull its wait mechanically. D&D has always been, at it's strongest, a game of fantasy archetypes. Things like 'dwarves' and 'elves' are fairly strong fantasy archetypes, even if we don't always agree on the precise definition or implementation of said archetypes. They need be no more the 'same' as one fighter or wizard is the the 'same' as any other. Post D20 D&D has shone many ways to differentiate various members of the same class from each other mechanically, not to mention by role playing. As to races all being a bunch of unrealistic cookie-cutters, I really can't agree. The PC generation rules, IMHO, are not the place to do the heavy lifting for fantasy world-building in this manner. It can be assumed that there are clergy of the the Goddess of Love and Wisdom in the world without the base system showing how you take away weapon & armor abilities, add in these spells and skills, remove that, etc. The base 'cleric' is assumed to be the typical 'adventuring cleric', with a few feats domain/granted powers & spell choices to individualize. The same could be said for the racial classes, depending on how they are done. This hardly prevents the idea of dwarven wizards (or artificers, or rune-priests or such) or elven clerics or whatever. It merely makes these concepts largely NPCs, or possibly explored in add on modules in the much ballyhooed complexity dial. Having said all of the above, I still reiterate that I think it is unlikely that we will get a return to racial classes, so I don't think there is much need to get to worked up yet if you really hate the idea. [/QUOTE]

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