Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Dwarves don't sell novels
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 3020760" data-attributes="member: 19675"><p>No, I'm fixated on the fact that DESPITE mentioning Howard and others, you completely discount the validity of fantasy written by those who DO include significant techno/anachronistic elements as somehow not "pure," "genuine" or "legitimate" fantasy, or at least, not legitimate sources for D&D.</p><p></p><p>Moorcock's Million Spheres was one of the major sources for D&D cosmology, magic items, etc.. Lieber gave us PC and plot archetypes. Vance gave us his magic system and items.</p><p></p><p>All included sci-fant elements, and Lieber's writings definitely predate Tolkien.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, not really- the popular redcaps that dominated the gnomish lore of Western Europe are not really well represented in 1Ed or 2Ed. If they had been, they would be iconically Druids and not Illusionists.</p><p></p><p><em>Smurfs</em> are closer to Western European gnomish lore & legend than any D&D gnome.</p><p></p><p>RE: Tolkien as Iconic Writer:</p><p></p><p>IMHO, he IS an Icon, without a doubt. He is very creative- especially in linguistics- but <em>he's not a good writer.</em> In his efforts to capture the elements of Heroic Epics in the form of a Novel (LoTR, natch), he succeeded too well. If, as many of my writing teachers said, great writers do not waste words- anything that does not advance the plot is ultimately useless and/or narcissistic- then JRRT is NOT a great writer. While he did convey the epic nature of the task at hand, he also included much that is dross- pointless details (like involved lineages of nonexistent people), bad poetry, etc. that can glaze one's eyes over quite quickly. Those elements in Epic poetry served a purpose- they put the protaganists within the context of the other legends and historical figures of the day (remember- the Epic was at least partially reportage). In LotR, there is no external context for those lineages etc. to link up with. They are merely meaningless mimics of the form.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 3020760, member: 19675"] No, I'm fixated on the fact that DESPITE mentioning Howard and others, you completely discount the validity of fantasy written by those who DO include significant techno/anachronistic elements as somehow not "pure," "genuine" or "legitimate" fantasy, or at least, not legitimate sources for D&D. Moorcock's Million Spheres was one of the major sources for D&D cosmology, magic items, etc.. Lieber gave us PC and plot archetypes. Vance gave us his magic system and items. All included sci-fant elements, and Lieber's writings definitely predate Tolkien. No, not really- the popular redcaps that dominated the gnomish lore of Western Europe are not really well represented in 1Ed or 2Ed. If they had been, they would be iconically Druids and not Illusionists. [I]Smurfs[/I] are closer to Western European gnomish lore & legend than any D&D gnome. RE: Tolkien as Iconic Writer: IMHO, he IS an Icon, without a doubt. He is very creative- especially in linguistics- but [I]he's not a good writer.[/I] In his efforts to capture the elements of Heroic Epics in the form of a Novel (LoTR, natch), he succeeded too well. If, as many of my writing teachers said, great writers do not waste words- anything that does not advance the plot is ultimately useless and/or narcissistic- then JRRT is NOT a great writer. While he did convey the epic nature of the task at hand, he also included much that is dross- pointless details (like involved lineages of nonexistent people), bad poetry, etc. that can glaze one's eyes over quite quickly. Those elements in Epic poetry served a purpose- they put the protaganists within the context of the other legends and historical figures of the day (remember- the Epic was at least partially reportage). In LotR, there is no external context for those lineages etc. to link up with. They are merely meaningless mimics of the form. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Dwarves don't sell novels
Top
