Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Dying From Exhaustion While Petrified
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Bacon Bits" data-source="post: 9299472" data-attributes="member: 6777737"><p>I don't really think we can blame natural language for the failure or incompleteness of a condition/keyword. Conditions and keywords are precisely what <em>synthetic </em>language is. The problem is already in the antithesis of natural language. You can't just point to any incomplete description and blame "natural language." That isn't what that means.</p><p></p><p>If anything, the problem is that the condition and keyword aren't property defined, not that they used natural language.</p><p></p><p>This is exactly like the problem in 3e where "<a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead" target="_blank">dead</a>" doesn't say you're incapacitated, and "<a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dying" target="_blank">dying</a>" ends at -9. So, RAW the only drawbacks to being dead are that you can't benefit from healing and that your soul has left your body. But nothing stops you from taking actions, because <em>they didn't tie the synthetic conditions together correctly</em>. The problem isn't natural language. It's the <em>synthetic</em> language.</p><p></p><p>It's also the same problem why, RAW in 5e, you can't wake up from a long rest. The game says you go to sleep, and that means you're unconscious. But the unconscious condition says you can't take actions while unconscious. So you can't wake up, because waking up is doing something! The problem is in <em>the keyword's synthetic definition is incomplete</em> not the natural language. Just because it's written in English doesn't mean it's natural language.</p><p></p><p>Like, I'm sorry, but that's what they didn't like about synthetic language. You had to define everything down to the last little detail, and it was extremely easy to miss some normally self-evident assumption when you do that. That's why too many keywords doesn't work. It's difficult to untangle and difficult to imagine all uses for every keyword. Magic The Gathering says, "forget verisimilitude, I want determinism." TTRPGs don't do that. They say, "verisimilitude is king and the rules can't cover everything you could imagine, so we put a referee at the table at all times precisely to deal with what happens when mechanics and verisimilitude conflict."</p><p></p><p>Natural language is, "Light works like light works. You can't try to hide when someone can see you. You can see what's in your line of sight. You can use an Arcana check to see if your character knows something about magical lore. You can use a Survival check to find food and fresh water in the wilderness." <em>That</em> is natural language. The only synthetic thing there is the word "check" and the names of the skills.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bacon Bits, post: 9299472, member: 6777737"] I don't really think we can blame natural language for the failure or incompleteness of a condition/keyword. Conditions and keywords are precisely what [I]synthetic [/I]language is. The problem is already in the antithesis of natural language. You can't just point to any incomplete description and blame "natural language." That isn't what that means. If anything, the problem is that the condition and keyword aren't property defined, not that they used natural language. This is exactly like the problem in 3e where "[URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dead']dead[/URL]" doesn't say you're incapacitated, and "[URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#dying']dying[/URL]" ends at -9. So, RAW the only drawbacks to being dead are that you can't benefit from healing and that your soul has left your body. But nothing stops you from taking actions, because [I]they didn't tie the synthetic conditions together correctly[/I]. The problem isn't natural language. It's the [I]synthetic[/I] language. It's also the same problem why, RAW in 5e, you can't wake up from a long rest. The game says you go to sleep, and that means you're unconscious. But the unconscious condition says you can't take actions while unconscious. So you can't wake up, because waking up is doing something! The problem is in [I]the keyword's synthetic definition is incomplete[/I] not the natural language. Just because it's written in English doesn't mean it's natural language. Like, I'm sorry, but that's what they didn't like about synthetic language. You had to define everything down to the last little detail, and it was extremely easy to miss some normally self-evident assumption when you do that. That's why too many keywords doesn't work. It's difficult to untangle and difficult to imagine all uses for every keyword. Magic The Gathering says, "forget verisimilitude, I want determinism." TTRPGs don't do that. They say, "verisimilitude is king and the rules can't cover everything you could imagine, so we put a referee at the table at all times precisely to deal with what happens when mechanics and verisimilitude conflict." Natural language is, "Light works like light works. You can't try to hide when someone can see you. You can see what's in your line of sight. You can use an Arcana check to see if your character knows something about magical lore. You can use a Survival check to find food and fresh water in the wilderness." [I]That[/I] is natural language. The only synthetic thing there is the word "check" and the names of the skills. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Dying From Exhaustion While Petrified
Top