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<blockquote data-quote="epithet" data-source="post: 7108412" data-attributes="member: 6796566"><p>As I understand it, the root of the issue is that some folks think that dying and death in 5e lack sufficient gravity. I am assuming the real crux of the problem is that players don't feel threatened, and DMs don't feel as though their BBEG is being taken seriously. It doesn't seem to me that bolting on an AD&D or 2e death mechanic is a particularly elegant solution, though. If you're trying to recapture the feel of old-school D&D, you might be better served by playing a retro clone like Swords & Wizardry.</p><p></p><p>If what you really want is to make players more interested in avoiding dying and/or death in 5e, then you're better off (I think) to use 5e systems and optional rules. For example, page 272 of the DMG has optional rules for lingering injuries. If every character who is reduced to 0 without becoming immediately stable (eg because the attacker chose to knock unconscious rather than kill) is required to roll on that table, those players will definitely be trying to avoid letting their characters drop. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye.</p><p></p><p>If revivify seems like it's too much like the magic defibrillator in movies and tv shows that drives real-world medical pros (like my wife) to distraction, then add a level of exhaustion. Want more? Add another level of exhaustion to the caster. Exhaustion is a great resource in 5e, and an exhaustion tax makes pretty much anything much more serious.</p><p></p><p>If you're really keen to get gritty with 5e, the slow natural healing rule (DMG page 267) will go a very long way toward capturing the old-school feel. No, it isn't a point per day like AD&D, but it forces a break in the action to rest and recover. If your players have begun to think of hit points as a scarce resource instead of "use it or lose it" between long rests, even a relatively trivial random encounter will be taken seriously as the party tries to minimize the hit dice needed to get back to full. Healer feats and bardic songs of rest suddenly become highly valued abilities.</p><p></p><p>Look, I'm the last guy who's gonna discourage home-brewing an aftermarket improvement to your game. I've never seriously considered Adventurer's League games because, at least in part, of the forced strict adherence to a limited subset of the D&D rules. Still, before you go trying to bolt panels of an older game onto the chassis of the new one, try looking at the existing optional rules and the mechanics built into 5e first.</p><p></p><p>Also, in this particular instance, keep in mind that there is a lot of territory between "I was just dead 6 seconds ago, but I'm totally fine now. Tallyho!" and rolling a new character. While the possibility of losing a character makes a narrow survival more exhilarating, actually losing a character legitimately sucks in almost every occasion. (The one exception is if your character knowingly risks death to achieve his or her primary motivating goal, and brings the character's story to a satisfying conclusion with an epic, if pyrrhic, victory.) No one will appreciate their character's permanent death to some routine dungeon encounter, but they will remember having to hobble back to the priest for an expensive high-level spell to cure their lingering wound, and they might play the hell out of the intimidating scar. A character who can't afford a regeneration spell might actually take pride in the exotic glass eye that they eventually have enchanted. There is a reason that the march of editions has taken us farther and farther from "Roll a d20... ok, you're dead. Go roll a new character."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="epithet, post: 7108412, member: 6796566"] As I understand it, the root of the issue is that some folks think that dying and death in 5e lack sufficient gravity. I am assuming the real crux of the problem is that players don't feel threatened, and DMs don't feel as though their BBEG is being taken seriously. It doesn't seem to me that bolting on an AD&D or 2e death mechanic is a particularly elegant solution, though. If you're trying to recapture the feel of old-school D&D, you might be better served by playing a retro clone like Swords & Wizardry. If what you really want is to make players more interested in avoiding dying and/or death in 5e, then you're better off (I think) to use 5e systems and optional rules. For example, page 272 of the DMG has optional rules for lingering injuries. If every character who is reduced to 0 without becoming immediately stable (eg because the attacker chose to knock unconscious rather than kill) is required to roll on that table, those players will definitely be trying to avoid letting their characters drop. It's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. If revivify seems like it's too much like the magic defibrillator in movies and tv shows that drives real-world medical pros (like my wife) to distraction, then add a level of exhaustion. Want more? Add another level of exhaustion to the caster. Exhaustion is a great resource in 5e, and an exhaustion tax makes pretty much anything much more serious. If you're really keen to get gritty with 5e, the slow natural healing rule (DMG page 267) will go a very long way toward capturing the old-school feel. No, it isn't a point per day like AD&D, but it forces a break in the action to rest and recover. If your players have begun to think of hit points as a scarce resource instead of "use it or lose it" between long rests, even a relatively trivial random encounter will be taken seriously as the party tries to minimize the hit dice needed to get back to full. Healer feats and bardic songs of rest suddenly become highly valued abilities. Look, I'm the last guy who's gonna discourage home-brewing an aftermarket improvement to your game. I've never seriously considered Adventurer's League games because, at least in part, of the forced strict adherence to a limited subset of the D&D rules. Still, before you go trying to bolt panels of an older game onto the chassis of the new one, try looking at the existing optional rules and the mechanics built into 5e first. Also, in this particular instance, keep in mind that there is a lot of territory between "I was just dead 6 seconds ago, but I'm totally fine now. Tallyho!" and rolling a new character. While the possibility of losing a character makes a narrow survival more exhilarating, actually losing a character legitimately sucks in almost every occasion. (The one exception is if your character knowingly risks death to achieve his or her primary motivating goal, and brings the character's story to a satisfying conclusion with an epic, if pyrrhic, victory.) No one will appreciate their character's permanent death to some routine dungeon encounter, but they will remember having to hobble back to the priest for an expensive high-level spell to cure their lingering wound, and they might play the hell out of the intimidating scar. A character who can't afford a regeneration spell might actually take pride in the exotic glass eye that they eventually have enchanted. There is a reason that the march of editions has taken us farther and farther from "Roll a d20... ok, you're dead. Go roll a new character." [/QUOTE]
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