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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WarlockLord" data-source="post: 5412400" data-attributes="member: 40098">[sblock=reply to PF changes]Not saying 3.5 had it right, just saying you had a semi-decent option to not die.  It wasn't good design by any stretch of the imagination (yes, let's encourage players even more to find all the free stuff we built into the system, while punishing casual gamers!)  But my point here is that there are still enough save-or-sucks that can remove PCs or monsters outright (blindness/deafness, hideous laughter, polymorph any object, enchantment etc), enemies with PC classes can still rock the same high DCs (I assume NPCs are still constructed via PC methods), and now everyone's saves suck against an evil elf wizard with greater spell focus rocking a save DC of 34.  Said elf wizard could drop weird on the party, probably insta-gibbing quite a few PCs now that all save DCs are knocked down to single-class levels.  And if he's a gnome sorceror rather than the elf, thats 35.  Easily enough to probably one-shot half our party, and if he has a greater rod of quickening the party will probably go down in one round.  Mind blank I believe will block it, but that's pretty hard to get if you aren't a wizard or sorceror.  There's also polymorph any object, if we can get by with creature => corpse of said creature which I believe would be permanent. (+11 to duration factor, so yeah).BTW fireinthedust, please don't get any ideas from ^.  Malacarus has the mind blank spell (or did until this round), and we don't want to all die.And I fear we're derailing the game with our PF math analysis, but I'd be willing to discuss this more on the TtT thread.[/sblock]</blockquote>

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