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<blockquote data-quote="Kunimatyu" data-source="post: 3763470" data-attributes="member: 22057">Bwahahaha!Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of E8, because level 4 spells start to introduce the phenomenon of &quot;magic that requires magic to defeat&quot; -- which, necessarily, starts messing with class balance.For example, take a spell like Solid Fog. An individual without either Gust of Wind or Dispel Magic is screwed -- they have no means to escape other than to lose 1-4 turns, depending on how it's centered. Improved Invisibility is another example -- a caster with that spell can harass the party relatively freely as long as Invisibility Purge, See Invis, Glitterdust, etc. haven't come into play. This phenomenon gets really bad with spells like Wall of Force and Forcecage, which require very special spells to overcome.That's not to say there aren't level 4 spells that do not suffer from these problems -- Wall of Fire is my usual example, since it deals damage and functions as battlefield control, but the fighter can just take the damage and jump through the wall to get the wizard, as opposed to being totally shafted. The 4 alignment spells (Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, etc.) I also don't view as problematic, since the damage + 1 round status effect combo isn't particularly broken.With all of this in mind, I prefer E6, with select 4th level spells available as 1/day feats,&nbsp; as opposed to E8.Now to finish my mini-setting document for Dictionary of Mu, finish the players roster, and start this grand experiment myself. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Kunimatyu, post: 3763470, member: 22057"] Bwahahaha! Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of E8, because level 4 spells start to introduce the phenomenon of "magic that requires magic to defeat" -- which, necessarily, starts messing with class balance. For example, take a spell like Solid Fog. An individual without either Gust of Wind or Dispel Magic is screwed -- they have no means to escape other than to lose 1-4 turns, depending on how it's centered. Improved Invisibility is another example -- a caster with that spell can harass the party relatively freely as long as Invisibility Purge, See Invis, Glitterdust, etc. haven't come into play. This phenomenon gets really bad with spells like Wall of Force and Forcecage, which require very special spells to overcome. That's not to say there aren't level 4 spells that do not suffer from these problems -- Wall of Fire is my usual example, since it deals damage and functions as battlefield control, but the fighter can just take the damage and jump through the wall to get the wizard, as opposed to being totally shafted. The 4 alignment spells (Holy Smite, Chaos Hammer, etc.) I also don't view as problematic, since the damage + 1 round status effect combo isn't particularly broken. With all of this in mind, I prefer E6, with select 4th level spells available as 1/day feats, as opposed to E8. Now to finish my mini-setting document for Dictionary of Mu, finish the players roster, and start this grand experiment myself. :) [/QUOTE]

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