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<blockquote data-quote="Zelc" data-source="post: 3780704" data-attributes="member: 40496">If a Monk gets full BAB progression (they should in E6), TWF, Improved TWF, Weapon Finesse, Improved Natural Attack, No Penalty Flurry with TWF, an Amulet of Mighty Fists, and he uses his unarmed attack as both his primary and secondary weapon, then he's actually about equal in damage output compared to a THF Fighter.&nbsp; If you're really worried about that case, then just say Flurry can't be used with TWF, and his expected damage output drops to about 4 less per round than a THF Fighter.&nbsp; That doesn't sound like much, but it's 20% less than a THF Fighter's expected damage output, which is HUGE.&nbsp; (I actually didn't realize Improved Natural Attack skipped d10; a normal Flurry with unarmed attacks will also be about 4 less damage than a Fighter).What does a Monk get?&nbsp; They get 3 bonus feats.&nbsp; They get good saves.&nbsp; They get some OK healing, and slow fall (meh).&nbsp; They get improved speed, but flurry requires a full attack.&nbsp; They have 1 less HP per level than a fighter, plus they have MAD so they'll probably have a lower Con score.&nbsp; Their AC will be lower (the exception is if they get Mage Armor, although that takes up a spell slot and not every party will have it available).&nbsp; Hmm.&nbsp; Maybe it is pretty even.Of course, don't read that and go &quot;Hmm, then they don't really need full BAB progression&quot;.&nbsp; Their primary role is still beating stuff up in melee, and they really can't do that if they don't have full BAB.&nbsp; Their expected damage output becomes something just awful.Yea, but again, not everyone has MIC <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":P" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :P"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":P" />.&nbsp; We should make sure the game works if they run it straight up core-only without any/many houserules, and core-only E6 would be more fun with flaming swords <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin&nbsp; &nbsp; :D"&nbsp; data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Zelc, post: 3780704, member: 40496"] If a Monk gets full BAB progression (they should in E6), TWF, Improved TWF, Weapon Finesse, Improved Natural Attack, No Penalty Flurry with TWF, an Amulet of Mighty Fists, and he uses his unarmed attack as both his primary and secondary weapon, then he's actually about equal in damage output compared to a THF Fighter. If you're really worried about that case, then just say Flurry can't be used with TWF, and his expected damage output drops to about 4 less per round than a THF Fighter. That doesn't sound like much, but it's 20% less than a THF Fighter's expected damage output, which is HUGE. (I actually didn't realize Improved Natural Attack skipped d10; a normal Flurry with unarmed attacks will also be about 4 less damage than a Fighter). What does a Monk get? They get 3 bonus feats. They get good saves. They get some OK healing, and slow fall (meh). They get improved speed, but flurry requires a full attack. They have 1 less HP per level than a fighter, plus they have MAD so they'll probably have a lower Con score. Their AC will be lower (the exception is if they get Mage Armor, although that takes up a spell slot and not every party will have it available). Hmm. Maybe it is pretty even. Of course, don't read that and go "Hmm, then they don't really need full BAB progression". Their primary role is still beating stuff up in melee, and they really can't do that if they don't have full BAB. Their expected damage output becomes something just awful. Yea, but again, not everyone has MIC :P. We should make sure the game works if they run it straight up core-only without any/many houserules, and core-only E6 would be more fun with flaming swords :D. [/QUOTE]

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