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Message: <blockquote data-quote="fireinthedust" data-source="post: 5369007" data-attributes="member: 51930">Oooh, that sounds rough.  I have a player who's a bit of a downer, but he's happy to play any game (so long as he can cause trouble, like picking fights, refusing to help other PCs in danger, then getting in danger and needing help.  He's the one you want to give wishes to, mostly because I know he'll need them to make up for horrific screw ups or self-inflicted catastrophes).I've had some awful people play, who just happen to play D&D.  They suck.  If this person isn't actually a jerk, though, maybe find out what they're looking for?  Work on a game with them as the GM, maybe.If the whole group isn't into it, you could try "cunning trickery #3": play a one-shot game they'd never expect, out of left field, so they're ready to go back to the standard game everyone's been enjoying for some time.Examples:1)  Arkham Horror (or even a CoC rpg game)2)  Mutants & Masterminds with pre-generated characters (powerful but with balance in mind)3)  Gamma world is all the rage, and seems stupidly fun4)  A one-shot Epic-level (30+) arena where they fight each other, or else a gauntlet where you fight their PCs with published epics from your collection.  If I did this, they'd fight Orcus, Demogorgon, Ashardalon, Cthulhu, Lloth, Asmodeus, and I'd see about statting up the Borg.Heck, even create a five-room dungeon (or planar labyrinth they have to figure out to pass from layer to layer; they are epic, remember) with this party in mind.  You could base it off Dante's Inferno.  At the end, the prize for the PC who survives the final encounter (which should be horrific) is they're made a demi-god in your next standard game.No problem, the subject is near and dear.QUESTION:  what is the flavour of your E6 game?  Is it heavily magical, or low magic?  Do the players routinely fight monsters, or the loggers/thugs of the local lumber baron?  How are they doing for magic?  For other equipment?Do they get to design their own fortresses or strongholds?  Do they have villains they hate (ie: rivals, not BBEG; think the Joker, not Sauron)?  Are the routine minions interesting in themselves?  Like, do you say "you fight yet more goblins" or do you say "the hunchbacked, slobbering goblins are in the village, attempting to sneak infants from their cribs to deliver to their foul mistress, Malificent!"  (and before you say anything, that villain/minion combo was fantastic.  The protagonists were weak, and the heroes were really the three fairies; but conceptually that is the coolest dungeon they could have done for an E6 game).What is the setting?  Standard European?  Do you avoid the planes/interesting scenery, because they're merely E6?  Numbers are numbers.  If the PCs are interested in the setting, whatever it is, they'll be happy.I like to find out what my group enjoys, individually, for when I'm brainstorming for adventures.  Or find things that would totally expand their horizons (ie: give them a fort they can design, and see how they like being in charge; if not, they can leave).</blockquote>

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