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<blockquote data-quote="VanceMadrox" data-source="post: 5480973" data-attributes="member: 95151">There are definitely a few 4th level spells that might need to banned and I have my eye on Black Tentacles as one possibility.&nbsp;With the way grappling works now in Pathfinder I'm not sure it needs it though.&nbsp;It's still a game breaker against non fighting types but from personal experience I've seen that there's a good chance that a fighting type won't be grappled. Being grappled is also not as bad as it use dto be.&nbsp;Pathfinder has mechanics called Combat Manuever Bonus (CMB) and Combat Manuever Defense (CMD)&nbsp;Basically roll a d20, add your CMB and if it meets or beats the opponent's CMD it works.&nbsp;For Black tentacles CMB is Caster Level + 4 (STR) +1 Size. Sp at 8th level it's CMB is +13.&nbsp;CMD is 10+ BaB + Str Mod + Dex Mod + Size Mod (0 for medium)At 8th level a fighting type could easily have a a +4 in str or dex and a =3 in another (or +5 and +2). Adding in 8 BaB and that's a CMD of 25.&nbsp;So against a well built fighting type the Caster needs a 12 or higher on the d20 to grapple the fighter type.&nbsp;It's a little harder to break out of the grapple. For breaking out the spell's CMD is 10+ it's CMB bonus. So CMD 23.&nbsp;CMB is BaB + Str Mod + Size Mod.Assuming an 18 Str and an 8 Bab that's a +12 on the die roll. That means the figher only needs an 11 on the die.&nbsp;&nbsp;For non fighting types it's a little worse but overall Black tentacles is much less deadly in Pathfinder.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="VanceMadrox, post: 5480973, member: 95151"] There are definitely a few 4th level spells that might need to banned and I have my eye on Black Tentacles as one possibility. With the way grappling works now in Pathfinder I'm not sure it needs it though. It's still a game breaker against non fighting types but from personal experience I've seen that there's a good chance that a fighting type won't be grappled. Being grappled is also not as bad as it use dto be. Pathfinder has mechanics called Combat Manuever Bonus (CMB) and Combat Manuever Defense (CMD) Basically roll a d20, add your CMB and if it meets or beats the opponent's CMD it works. For Black tentacles CMB is Caster Level + 4 (STR) +1 Size. Sp at 8th level it's CMB is +13. CMD is 10+ BaB + Str Mod + Dex Mod + Size Mod (0 for medium) At 8th level a fighting type could easily have a a +4 in str or dex and a =3 in another (or +5 and +2). Adding in 8 BaB and that's a CMD of 25. So against a well built fighting type the Caster needs a 12 or higher on the d20 to grapple the fighter type. It's a little harder to break out of the grapple. For breaking out the spell's CMD is 10+ it's CMB bonus. So CMD 23. CMB is BaB + Str Mod + Size Mod. Assuming an 18 Str and an 8 Bab that's a +12 on the die roll. That means the figher only needs an 11 on the die. For non fighting types it's a little worse but overall Black tentacles is much less deadly in Pathfinder. [/QUOTE]

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