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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cheiromancer" data-source="post: 4884208" data-attributes="member: 141">[sblock=Sep's original post]More random thoughts on divine ranks.I was reading an old post by fusangite about what he calls 'metatext' and it got me thinking about one of the hidden patterns in the campaign: namely, that the overarching cosmologies presented by five different perspectives – Oronthonist, Uediian, Pseudonatural, Oneiric and Cheshnite – can be reconciled in terms of the numerology of divine ranks. When I started detailing deities, I didn't intend this; it kind of just happened: in many ways, I've actively avoided looking for any kind of meta-reality which holds various others. But…Because DvRs have a 'real' meaning within the campaign world – e.g. Gihaahia is recognized as "three times thrice magnified" by Choach – it stands to reason that some enterprising Irrenite familiar with Mostin's ideas would have devised a scheme to describe this. It is couched primarily in numerological terms, and a variety of mystical 'routes' exist within it, as do a number of distinct mystical 'goals:' paths may be ascending, descending; linear or cyclical. Ascending them generally corresponds with apotheosis; descending has connotations of emanation. None of the following is True.DvR1: Divinity. The Union of Infinities. Divinity is paradigm-neutral.DvR2: Bifurcation and division. Oronthon self-emanates. The first impulse of the Adversary. The beginning of the process of dissolution. The multiplication of life begins. DvR2 is also paradigm-neutral.DvR3: Harmony. Accordance with the Divine Will. Associated with Oronthon's scheme ("thrice magnified"). DvR4: Disruption and revolution. (2 x 2) Powerful Bhitis. Explosive and fragmenting energy. Dynamic force applied to reality. DvR5: Manifestation in the world. Great nature spirits: scions of specific tree-ludjas; powerful mountain-ludjas, river or lake-ludjas. DvR6: Reconciliation. (3 x 2) Nehael. Sophist notions of God(dess) in Nature.DvR7: Divine Mysteries. Oronthon's Regents. (The number of Sovereignties. Seven times seven Regents each with 7DvR. Also, 7 x 7 x 7 = number of seraphim in the highest choir.)DvR8: Destruction. (2 x 2 x 2) Great Bhitis. Phenomena associated with Cheshne.DvR9: Perfection. (3 x 3) Associated with Oronthon's Magnification scheme ("three times thrice"); also the Claviger is capable of bestowing this status.DvR10: Fecundity (5 x 2) Specific tree-ludjas (Oak, Yew etc.)DvR11: Imagination. The ClavigerDvR12: Reification (3 x 2 x 2) Eternal elemental forces. Elder elemental deities.DvR13: Occultation. That which is hidden or impenetrable. Those who guard the Veils of Cheshne.DvR14: Revelation (7 x 2) ? DvR15: Sovereignty. (5 x 3) Sovereignties. Harmony x manifestation. Oronthon acts in perfect accordance with his own will. Esoterically, the Adversary is variously considered a 13+2, an 11+4 or a 9+6; he is the only entity described primarily as an additive function.DvR16: Dissolution. (2 x 2 x 2 x 2) Apparitions of Demogorgon. The preconscious destructive urge.DvR17: Impossibility. Pseudodeities.DvR18: Resolution (3 x 3 x 2). The realization of the dialectic.DvR19: Premanifestation. The apprehension of the Urge Primeval within FinitudeDvR20: Genesis. (5 x 2 x 2) Tree, Aeon. But the order of operators is different: Tree is (5 x 2) x 2, and partakes of the nature of 10 (fecundity); Aeon is (2 x 2) x 5, and partakes of the nature of 4 (disruption).Speculative DvRs of Meta-TranscendentalsDerived from the "inverse avatar" notion.22 Dream – Magical node. The Claviger's emanatory point.24 Uedii (Mother of the Elements). The emanatory point of fundamental elemental forces.25 Viridity (5 x 5). Hyperfecundity.26 Cheshne (Beyond the Veils). Emanatory point of the Mistresses of the Veils. Note that she sleeps with the others.27 Sela (3 x 3 x 3).30 Oronthon (Radiant Form). Emanatory point of the Sovereignties.32 Cheshne (Awakened). Emanatory point of the Apparition.32 Demogorgon. Emanatory point of the Apparition.34 Any specific Pseudoinfinity36 Saizhan. Transcendence of the dialectic.40 Hahio (Interwoven Green). Emanatory point of Tree. 40 Oronthon (Consciousness Form). The emanatory point of the Aeons.44 Primordial Dream49 Oronthon (7 x 7). Unknowable.64 Tamasah. Emanatory point of the Demogorgon/Cheshne duality.80 (Unmanifest).[/sblock]My inner Irrenite wants to further discuss this numerological scheme. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  From on Oronthonian perspective I'm wondering if 14 would be a better number for the Adversary.  As (7 x 2) it can be read off as the mystery of evil (or duality, if you prefer).  As (2 x 7) it symbolizes the Adversary's own opposition to Oronthon's mysterious plan.  The additive relations hint at the overlap of different paradigms.  10 and 6 are both Uediian numbers, while 4 and 8 are Chesnite.  Since 14 is both (10+4) and (8+6) the Adversary may be thought of in terms of a dialog between the two traditions.  As a kind of ludja with a dash of Bhiti, perhaps, or else as a great Bhiti nuanced by Sophist, incarnational theories.  If 12 is a great elemental force and 2 is duality, then 12+2 is also an apt description; he is the great force of dualism in the world.A pre-fall status is hinted by being the inverse avatar of one of Oronthon's regents (the double of 7; note too that a 'regent of regents' would be 7+7) and as the manifestation of perfection (5+9).  His intellectual nature might be hinted at by the relation of (3+11); the harmony of imagination.  As 19 is pre-manifestation (because it is 1 short of 20), so too the Adversary falls short of perfect accordance with Oronthon's will; he fulfills his role, but does not do so willingly or consciously.  This seems a suitable way of representing both his rebellion and his submission to Oronthon's sovereignity (15).I'd speculate that in Chesnite thinking the Regents are failed Bhiti's; constrained, perhaps, by operating in the Oronthonian paradigm.  In other words, 7 is 1 less than 8.  As prince of Regents the Adversary similarly falls short of being an emanation of Demogorgon; conscious reflection gets in the way of the pre-conscious urge for destruction.  In other words, 14 is 2 less than 16.I'd also like to note that the unmanifest (80) *can* manifest- and in fact does so through successive emanations (40, 20, 10, 5).  But that the unmanifest may be itself a self-limitation of that which, properly speaking, cannot manifest: the perfection of perfections, 81.Besides 3 and 9, 81 has no other factors that could serve as the basis for speculation.  But addition (or more specifically subtraction) could help.  80 is the closest number to 81 that can emanate and form 40, 20, 10 and 5.  And so a numerology based on 80 is the closest to the unexpressible truth. An Oronthonian might claim this.  An Uediian might go along with this, except that they'd substitute Hahio for Oronthon at 40.  A Chesnite might deny that there is any reality denoted by 80 (or 81), but that the fundamental reality is Tamasah (64).  64 is 24 + 40, and so is adequate to describe anything from within the Uediian (24) or Oronthonian (40) paradigm.  If they are inclined to be charitable to Oronthonians, they might introduce a number to express the Oronthonian schema.  Perhaps they will use "perfect mystery" of 9 x 7, since it is a near-miss to the Truth that is Tamasah. A Chesnite influenced Irrenite might also posit a "hidden reality" of 13 x 5, which Tamasah approximates.  It's the same notion as how 80 approximates 81.  81 and 65 cannot emanate (since they have no even factors) but 80 and 64 can.   Heavens only knows what the Alienists would say.  Except I think they would pay a lot of attention to the prime numbers larger than 11.  11 is the number of imagination, and so can be grasped; larger primes symbolize what is too big for conventional minds and which cannot be reduced to something intelligible in conventional frameworks.</blockquote>

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