Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gina" data-source="post: 1632901" data-attributes="member: 10990">An argument....Tieran, noticing that Thaile is preparing to blow up steps in first: We have traveled far enough to recognize water under the bridge. Had I known Rowan would have told Moira about the tests, I would have counseled against it. I think it naive to believe that Moira does not know how to find, penetrate and activate the tests. She is certainly of enough skill to hear our thoughts, should she so desire. The only obstacle which prevents her from taking the idol and a bunch of henchmen down to the throne room is her own sense of ethics which I cannot read. I do not believe she is above deception. Likely her appearance is altered to manipulate men. It is unnatural for mages to simultaneously attract elves, humans and kobolds. As I know you have noticed from our time together, most mages are average looking at best, Mrs. Wiggins aside. I strongly suggest we pull it together, get out of town and beat it back to Alderslook once our work in Three Oaks is done. The sooner we remove the idol from town the better. If we decide that we should take the gaseous route through the rock pile I would rather scribe scrolls in a barn or with the kobolds.Rowan:I didn't tell her anything about the tests except to ask about them. SHE KNEW that there were such tests. She guessed that there was one under Alder's Look. It would have been counterproductive to lie to her about it. She has also never been able to activate one of them herself. I don't understand why all of you think that it is better to lie than to tell the truth. And by the way Tieran, if this is what you think of other wizards, then I can only wonder what is in your mind. I thought that I knew you, but now I suspect that there is a darker bent to your imaginings. Makes me think that you may eventually turn on us, if wizardry is so very corrupting that power becomes the end of all. As to Moira's effect upon males....well, some women have that. I suspect that wizards, as the rest of us, come in more and less attractive packages in the same proportion as the rest of society. In any case. I shall refrain from speaking to anyone unless given express permission in future. That should solve all such problems. (Rowan, sits down, obviously angry)Thaile, close to blowing her top, but trying to keep it under control turns to ask Rowan a few questions:"Why did you go behind my back? At a minimum I think we should have talked about this. If you felt it was better to go back without me, maybe that could have been arranged. We are a team and have made some promises to keep this under wraps, which is the main reason I didn't feel that we should tell her everything. She does have her own agenda and now that you have told her where the tests are and where we are going, how can you be sure she will keep it to herself? That she won't intervene and take the idol to do the test herself?" She stops and takes a quick breath... "I understand the fact that you are not trusting of the church, and I respect that, but what makes you so certain you can trust Moira?Rowan responds, growing impatient, her face flushing as she begins pacing the small room: You wouldn't have let me go without you. She wouldn't speak freely around you. I took Mor'Elandi along, even asked Tieran if he wanted to come, but all I got from him was a hmmmm and an OK. She has her own agenda true, but I'm pretty sure her agenda doesn't include killing us all to take the idol, if that was her plan, she could easily have disposed of us in her tower with no one the wiser. I suspect that she knew that the idol was there, she even saw through Kytum-up's disguise, I am sure of it. We now have more information than we did before, which will probably help us. Kaleal trusts her and I know that HE is trustworthy, thus it follows that she is relatively trustworthy too. The fact is that there was no one in this city to whom I could speak frankly about my experiences while dead. The churches would likely have had me killed, the regular citizenry would have recoiled in horror. What was I to do? Let it burn in my mind with no possible explanation? Wait until you fall far enough under the spell of the great church to tell them so that I will be executed for the greater glory of the church? In the end, the simple fact remains that none of you trusts ME at all. You all think me a fool and maybe I am. I don't even know who or what I am anymore. I thought to get some answers. I also wanted to know what might be coming so that we could be prepared. We went totally unprepared into the first few tests. We lost Riva because of not being prepared, several of us nearly died on various occasions because we were unprepared. So, forgive me for not wanting to see another of you dead at my feet and unable to do anything about it. I apologize and will never again take action without express permission. But, you didn't tell any of us what transpired in your meetings with the church folk either. I did not ask, I assumed that you had your reasons for going to speak with them. Oh, by the way, I sold my egg, so none of you need worry about the problem of carrying it about. Rowan tosses a pouch of gold on the table Now, if it meets with your approval, I am going to take a walk. Thaile runs after Rowan to continue this lively discussion....."Rowan, wait up... You are right, at this time I haven't talked with you (or the others) about my trip to the Great Church. That is because that is personal, and I need to figure some things out. At this time, it hasn't really affected the rest of you. Telling someone that not all of us have decided to trust about our mission and the kobolds does affect the whole group. We have made some promises to the kobolds to keep this secret and up until now we have done a pretty good job of keeping those. One of the things you mentioned is a bit different though.. your experiences when you were dead and wanting to talk about those. I do understand your right to go and do that with whomever you chose, not needing any consent from me or any of the others. I am sorry that you didn't feel you could talk to me or that you do not trust me to not to go the church. Your friendship means the world to me, or I would not have even considered bringing you back. Bringing you back from the dead goes against everything I have been taught by the churches, but it is you, yourself that has taught me to be more open to different possibilities. For example, ultimately it was you that got me to trust the kobolds and see that they may be something other than what I was taught. The reason I decided to help bring you back is because it was your wish and that alone carried a lot of weight with me. I know I give you a hard time for all of your chattering, but you have excellent ideas and I do listen and take them under consideration. I am sorry you feel that your view does not count and that we dismiss it lightly. I, for one, do not. It just makes me open my mind more to hear it and to take it under advisement. I for one, like the fact that we do not think exactly alike - otherwise life could be quite boring. As far as the egg, I am sorry you felt you had to sell it, I know how strongly you felt about trying to raise it. I was willing to see it back to Eaglesford and see what Graystone thought of the whole idea. Whom did you sell it to? Rowan, are you willing to try to talk about all of this?Rowan walks for a while, her face red, her shoulders set. Finally she sinks down under a tree and looking down as Asmathias pools himself in her lap. She says nothing for a while as she strokes the snake. When she does speak her voice is low and calm, she sounds tired.I wouldn't have asked you about the church. I thought that you would tell when you were ready. We had asked about the tests, Moira had guessed that there was one under Alder's Look, I confirmed it. She still doesn't know how to get there. She cannot detect the door by magical means and I doubt she's up to several hours of digging. It took us six hours and WE knew where the door was. Not once did the word Kobold passe my lips in conversation with her, though she made it clear that she knew what he was. Clearly she can see past illusions. As to telling her of our mission, we don't really even know of our mission.....the tests, well, as I said, she had already guessed that there were tests below Alder's Look, we simply confirmed that. Now we know what the tests will be....at least in part. The first two principles are Purpose and Purity. We have passed both of them. The next Patience and Infinity or Endlessness, we have passed Patience. She says that Endlessness can drive one mad and we should look to Tieran for help in this mystery. Then come Focus and Duality, and the final pair are Grace and Power.....the last is the Mystery of One, she doesn't know what it means, but this is far more than we knew before. None of the tests have ever become active for her as they have for us. I suspect that if she went to them, she would  see deserted and destroyed tests. For whatever reason, we have been chosen for this. Though I could be wrong about this. I feel very certain that she doesn't pose a danger to us and is better to have as an ally than an enemy. What she seeks is knowledge, knowledge for one such as her is power. I suspect that she also has her own problems to worry about. After all, wizards are making bolt-holes to hide in and she is definitely nervous about something. She is also going to see Kaleal soon, at the front, to the North. That might be enough to make anyone nervous.The fact that she is trusted by one as venerable as Kaleal means a great deal to me. He has traveled with her as I have with you and the others, so I suspect that he knows her better than most in this city. Do I trust her? Not entirely. The only people who I trust with my life and those of my loved ones are you, Kytum-up, Mor'Elandi, Tieran as long as he is not sending a fireball blindly ahead, Graystone, Reena, and perhaps even that crazy old witch, Hara. It is a very small number. I truly believe that I have not endangered any of us. I spoke to her of my death and rebirth. I was taught the same things that you were about religion, about death. It was a great shock to me to find that it was false. Moira even asked me if I were being misled with false images sent by evil gods. I do not think that this was the case, but it is something that I must consider as time goes on. It was a very strange time and it changed me in ways that I do not understand. Do you know, I cannot even go to my mother? She would see a stranger, but Moira recognized me behind these new eyes. If we thought exactly alike we would all be dead, for Riva would have insisted that we all think like him! (Rowan laughs a bit at this). We would forever have been rushing forward to do battle before we were ready. I sold the egg to the animal trainer because I do not know if I will survive these tests and it seemed wrong to leave it for Graystone if I should not return. If we survive, I do not know that I would have the time to see it raised properly, so I gave it up. It deserves to be raised by one with enough time to see to it and one who wants it. This is not the time for me to do such a thing. Rowan there are a couple of things that you have said that are bugging me and I want to talk through them because I think they affect the way we will interact as a group in the future. You said a couple of times (once to me and then to Tieran as well) that you will no longer talk to anyone with out express permission from the group. I think that is over the top. I don't think that you should take it that far. I think as a group when we are talking about our mission it should be a group decision what we tell someone. When we are talking about things that are personal and affect mostly us, like my dealings with the Great Church or your wanting to talk to someone you trust about your experiences when you were dead. I think it is fully an individual decision. I don't want us to go to extremes. The only thing we ever talk to outsiders about is our mission, unless we are purchasing things, so it is likely better for me to say nothing in most situations. Clearly, both you and Tieran think that I am a poor judge of character and this may be. The fact is that we will be seeing no one except for shadows and orcs in the coming weeks, so this will be moot anyway. I also understand that you feel we can trust Moira and you may very well be right. I certainly trust her more because you feel this way, but I am still a bit leery I must admit. I have said over and over that I do not trust her fully, however, it seems that both you and Tieran think that she is some creature of evil, ready to kill us and take the idol from us. Is there no middle ground between "She wants to kill us all and take our stuff" and "While she has her own motives and reasons, she can still be of assistance to us?". Things are not always black and white! One of the things that happened after we were last in Three Oaks is that you felt "watched" on our journey. I always had strong suspicions that Moira was behind that. Now if you trust her, maybe you would say she was watching us to make sure that we were safe and considering nothing else really came of it, so maybe that is it. I think that as we leave Three Oaks this time, you should really pay attention to if you feel that and then we should watch to see what kind of things happen around the times that you feel you have been watched. At the time, I thought it could be Moira. The one watching still could have been her, but I have also wondered if the watcher was someone or something else. The feeling came upon me more and more as we neared the Aldersmere. It could be the watchful eye that I felt while I was dead. I truly don't know. Whether she was watching us or not, she has not taken action against us and has no real reason to, unless you believe her to have so black a heart as to wish to kill us and take what we have. The fact remains that we will not give up the idol without a fight. And, as I have said before, if she wanted to take it, we had it with us at her tower. She could easily have overpowered us there in her own home and taken it with none the wiser. If she were so black-hearted as all that, she would not have thought twice about it. My personal feeling is that she probably knows more than she is telling us, but not much more. She seems to be eager to gain more information about the tests and we may well be a conduit for that information. Slithia indicated that there are many totems, it may be that Moira can get her own totem and proceed through the tests herself at a later date. Also, you keep saying that we would rather lie than tell the truth. Aside from Moira at this point we have not told the entire story to anyone. I would not consider this lying, rather protecting ourselves. I have been extremely careful what I have told Mrs. Faegen and those at the church because I know much of what we have found goes against their beliefs. I fully trust Mrs. Faegen she has been a great teacher throughout the years, but I am not sure what her reactions would be to the whole truth and to protect ourselves as well as the kobolds i have leaned toward the side of caution. I am just trying to clarify what I see as a difference between lying and being cautious. There may be a difference between lying and being cautious, but there is also a point where we have to trade information for information. Now, if you believe that none of the information I received was of value, fine, I made a poor decision. It was not the first and will likely not be the last. I am flawed as we all are and do make mistakes at times. Would you tell me that you have never made a mistake, what of Tieran, Riva? Mrs. Faegen seems less trapped in dogma than others of the churches, but the fact remains that she knows little that can be of assistance to us, so it is not the same situation. Maybe lie is a stronger term than I should have used, but the fact is that between trusting all and trusting none, there must be a middle ground or we shall never get any information! Why did you even permit me to go to Moira in the first place if you are so certain that she wishes us harm? I still stand, however, that I have not given all that much away. For her to find the way down would take a long time. We KNEW exactly where to look and had trouble locating it. She knows for certain now what she suspected before, that there is a testing ground under Alder's Look. You said that Moira already knew about the tests but she herself could not activate then. Did she know that an idol was required to activate them? Did she have an idol and still was not able to activate them? I strongly believe that if she took the idol from us that she and her group could also activate the tests. What's your take on this? Actually, we did not speak at all of the totem or of the need for one. We primarily spoke of the tests and what they were about, what we might be facing as we move forward in them. We spoke more of what Asmathias said to me when he came to me and what it might mean and of the children of the old ones. If Brother Mamet had proved to be of sufficient intelligence to be helpful to us, I might have discussed the very same things with him. We also spoke of the other testing grounds and the fact that the defacements were done by the Great Church in the early days of the empire. It seems that they were quite eager to destroy such things with magic. Alder's Look resisted the magical destruction which is why it was done with chisel and hammer by hand. I also think that this is possibly important information. It seems that you and others would see us go in blind rather than share information. I also suspect that if Moira wanted to activate the tests herself, she could find her own totem, but in point of fact, that word was never used, nor did I ever mention that the tests seem to have become active due to the dragon idol. What it all comes down to is something my mother said a lot when I was little and afraid to do something. If you take no risk, you gain no reward. In future I shall probably just stay in the wood when we go to towns, since I seem only to cause trouble. The rest of you should discuss this. If you feel that my breach has been too terrible, then tell me to leave and I will go my own way with no ill will. Let me know your decision before it is time to leave, if you would be so kind. Rowan and Thaile walk back to the Inn in silence only to find the others waiting to continue the conversation. Thaile brings them up to speed on what has been said, as Rowan sits, staring out the window, absently stroking Asmathias.Tieran begins, seemingly picking up from his previous comments: With regard to Moira, I have little to base an opinion of her morality. I have rarely been to Three Oaks and have only met her fleetingly. Certainly she is interesting and I hope evolve a professional relationship with her. Under the pressures of time, however, I am viewing her with caution. Rowan, the heart of a wizard is unlike that of a druid. The behavior of druids is motivated by a desire to seek balance and harmony with nature. You are drawn to trees because they are peaceful and giving. Thaile, the heart of a cleric is also understandable. Clerics serve the doctrine of their god(s). Wizards, on the other hand are much less predictable. The path to greatness is long, tiresome and sometimes outright dangerous. Why would someone pursue such a life? In my experience, wizards are drawn to their art by either curiosity or power. Just think of how controlling Mrs. Wiggins is. Her motivation is certainly not curiosity!As for me, the motivation is curiosity. I am fascinated by the interplay of energy and matter. Curious wizards generally protect life. (The dead can only share the secret of their entrails.) Curiosity may be Moira's bent, also. Often curious wizards are reclusive, paying little attention to that which is ostentatious. How would it serve such a wizard to have a tower, fly a flag and wear an amulet which alters her appearance, I do not know for certain that she possesses such an amulet, it is merely speculation. Thus, I suspect Moira may be preoccupied by power. This may or may not help us. Vote you off our band? Oh, pleeeaaazzze. I think the city is getting to you. As for the innkeeper's dog... Are you sure he is not the Orcish animal master? Think about that next time he mounts your leg! As to Mor’Elandi’s opinion: Everyone is an individual and has to make their own choices as to what's best. Not only best for them as individuals  like Rowan talking about her time being dead with Moira, Thaile's discussions/trips to the Great Church) but also what's best for us as a party. With the exception of Kefk, who has made it clear time and again that his priorities lay with himself and his clan, Mor'Elandi does not feel anyone in our party would willingly endanger another with their actions or inaction. Whether everyone necessarily agrees with the choices made by another is another matter entirely, but they are entitled to make them in the first place.Moira, through arcane means and/or her relationship with Kaleal the Centaur Druid, knew much of our adventures and current plight before Rowan said anything beyond what we all brought up in our first trip to her. She let us know that she knew Kytum-Up was a kobold (how his guise was penetrated I'm unsure), Rowan's death & rebirth into her current form, etc.Since we were confirming firsthand what she'd already heard secondhand (or through arcane means or whatever) and offered her some new information of our own I do not feel our party owes her much of anything though she did confirm the presence of the tests, their number and titles, and an occasional tidbit about a specific test. The issue of the idols was *NEVER* brought up, nor was the exact location of the entrance to the tests or the kobold tribe's city. I think the information we gave her was a fair exchange for what she shared with us. If we decide to call it quits right there, I don't believe she'd be unhappy with what she's come away with.On the other hand, if we are committed to bringing her new information with our next adventures in the tests, then I think she would be willing to make sure we have the means to acquire that information for her. Of everything that has been mentioned or is possible, I think Tieran's plan of using his magic to allow us to move down the rubble-filled stairs from the throne room to the tests in gaseous form is an idea well worth considering. For that we need six scrolls and I don't think any of us relish the idea of spending nearly another week here in Three Oaks or back in Eaglesford giving Tieran the time he needs to prepare them. To that end, I think it's worth bargaining with Moira and her wizard. We know what she wants, let's see if she can help us with what we want or think we need.The worst case scenario I honestly feel will happen is that she says she's not interested. After all, she can scry on us and or likely take anything we have if she really wants it already. I think her motives are pretty straightforward, really, all things considered: she's after secrets (as so many Tinelans are). What she does with those she has we can't begin to know or control, so why worry?**********************From the Journal of Rowan, Druid of Eaglesford</blockquote>

Verification