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<blockquote data-quote="Doctor Shaft" data-source="post: 2693555" data-attributes="member: 25737">Flavor-wise, it sounds really good.&nbsp; You removed all the &quot;elements&quot; that the generic monk is commonly known for and replace with earth-based abilities.&nbsp; However...I wonder how much utility many of those abilities have, and what benefits there would be to taking an &quot;earth monk&quot; over say a generic monk.&nbsp; Or maybe this is just your replacement for your campaign, in which case there's no real need for comparison.&nbsp; Grapple for a monk is already quite poor. The abilities your earth variant offers is quite powerful... if the monk could actually grapple his opponents.&nbsp; A fighter with full BAB would put such abilities to far better use.&nbsp; I definitely appreciate the flavor of your earth-variant, but he seems to be a one-trick pony in that half of his &quot;offensive abilities&quot; rely on a successful trip or a successful grapple.&nbsp; I saw the races of stone of feat chain mastery offer, and perhaps that would be the &quot;solution,&quot; but a monk already suffers from MAD on top of the low BAB.&nbsp; Giving to hit bonuses on the ground would alleviate the one weakness, but you'd still have a monk that is either struggling to keep a decent AC (Dex, Wis) or has low AC and high STR, but is can now only use its special moves in very unique or specific situations.&nbsp; For instance, the breath mastery power is potent... against air opponents. Outside of that, the utility is far less than what diamond body and diamond soul offer for regular monks.&nbsp; Stoneskin seems to give the AC advantage, but I'm assuming that's more a &quot;high level&quot; ability? I can't say I'd be any good at creating a balanced character class, and I will admit that I'm not the first guy you would go to in terms of analyzing a class and its abilities.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Doctor Shaft, post: 2693555, member: 25737"] Flavor-wise, it sounds really good. You removed all the "elements" that the generic monk is commonly known for and replace with earth-based abilities. However... I wonder how much utility many of those abilities have, and what benefits there would be to taking an "earth monk" over say a generic monk. Or maybe this is just your replacement for your campaign, in which case there's no real need for comparison. Grapple for a monk is already quite poor. The abilities your earth variant offers is quite powerful... if the monk could actually grapple his opponents. A fighter with full BAB would put such abilities to far better use. I definitely appreciate the flavor of your earth-variant, but he seems to be a one-trick pony in that half of his "offensive abilities" rely on a successful trip or a successful grapple. I saw the races of stone of feat chain mastery offer, and perhaps that would be the "solution," but a monk already suffers from MAD on top of the low BAB. Giving to hit bonuses on the ground would alleviate the one weakness, but you'd still have a monk that is either struggling to keep a decent AC (Dex, Wis) or has low AC and high STR, but is can now only use its special moves in very unique or specific situations. For instance, the breath mastery power is potent... against air opponents. Outside of that, the utility is far less than what diamond body and diamond soul offer for regular monks. Stoneskin seems to give the AC advantage, but I'm assuming that's more a "high level" ability? I can't say I'd be any good at creating a balanced character class, and I will admit that I'm not the first guy you would go to in terms of analyzing a class and its abilities. [/QUOTE]

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