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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DamionW" data-source="post: 2729444" data-attributes="member: 18649">Well, I will have clerics, and they can turn/rebuke elementals, but by the time the character gets Earth Self, he's already 20HD, so you'd need an epic cleric to even effect him, so I really don't have a problem with that.As for the other abilities being weaker, it isn't by intention, but that's kind of why I posted this, is to help work on balance issues.  Here's how I feel:1)  Imp Sunder < Monk's Stunning Fist.  The original stunning fist is powerful, but I wanted to make Earth Monks good at destroying items because most solid weapons come from the earth2)  Imp Trip@2nd level >= Combat Reflexes.  While extra AoOs are useful, tripping is central to this monk design and getting it for free at 2nd level is a great boost3)  Earth Sense <= Evasion.  The earth sense feat is useful when vision is impared, but having a boost to any relex save is very useful, so it's a tough call4)  Earth Adept > Still Mind.  Having a damage boost near constantly while on the ground seems more effective than occasionally running across mind effecting magic.5)  Stability < first 10' extra movement.  Avoiding bull rushing is central to earth flavored creatures/characters, but being able to close to fighting distance is helpful to a monk6)  Ki Strike Lawful/Earth@4th lvl = Ki Strike Magic.  In this particular campaign world, there will be more need for lawful/earth damage than specifically magic damage.7)  Breathless > Purity of Body.  There in my mind seems to be many more instances where not needing to breath would be more useful than avoiding disease.8)  Eagle Claw/Earth's Embrace > Imp Disarm.  Both feats are higher in the feat chain than disarming and allow to do some impressive extra damage in the appropriate situation (sundering or pinning)9)  Up the Walls = 2nd 10' speed boost.  While extra speed is useful in closing furher, having the number of tactical options available into you in a mountain environment that Up the Walls gives you can open many interesting maneuvers.10)  Earth Mastery >= Imp Evasion.  The feat gives a near constant boost to strike while Imp. Evasion only affects damaging spells with Ref saves.11)  Stone Hue >= 3rd 10' speed boost.  This ability is where the monk starts catching up with the speed boost ability because they can hide and wait out their enemies.12)  Ki Strike Cold Iron = Ki Strike Lawful.  The end result is basically the same, but fits the image more.13)  Power Drop > Diamond Body.  Having the ability to make a trip attack do the monk's full damage and cause the enemy to be prone makes it a great lead-off to a full attack action.  Add the later Earth Press ability and a stonefist's enemies will nearly always be brought down to the ground.  This outweighs poison immunity to me.14)  Wing Cripple < Abundant Step.  The wing cripple is vital as part of the stonefists inventory of special moves, but a short range teleportation effect is extremely useful in most cases.  I just had a hard time finding another 4th level arcane spell effect to replace Abundant Step with that made sense.15)  Camouflage @ 12th level > 4th 10' speed boost.  This gives the monk camo faster than the ranger would even have gotten it and lets them venture further from their mountain homes and still get a drop on their enemies before they can flee.16)  Grounding Stance < Diamond Soul.  Again, the grounding stance flavor wise makes good sense vs. their intended enemies, but I hadn't noticed that the SR was 10 + monk level.  Would the grounding stance be better if I made the energy resistance 10 + class level and the bonus to saving throws half of their monk level, or some other variant?17)  Stone Touch = Quivering Palm.  This is a simple swap.  Being turned to stone is effectively the same as being slain.18)  Hide in Plain Sight > 5th 10' speed boost.  This is a full two levels sooner than the ranger would have gotten it and lets a stonefist nearly fight invisibly in stone/mountain terrain.  The little extra speed that would have been given by this level is not that much of a bonus.19)  Earth Press > Tongue of Sun and Moon.  Unlimited languages have some RPing advantages, but when the monk's life is on the line, it helps making his opponents held effortlessly through a single trip or pin attack is useful.20)  Earth Glide > Last 10' of speed boost.  The ability to swim through solid rock and dirt effortlessly opens many many more combat possibilities than another two squares of movement would give the monk at 18th level.21)  Leap Tackle < Empty Body.  The ability to take flying enemies out of the air is again very necessary for a warrior who's advantages come from his connection to the soil beneath him, but to become ethereal makes the normal monk almost invulnerable while its active and lets them bypass many obstacles.22)  Earth Self >= Perfect Self.  I think it's a simple swap, with some extra advantages for the elemental.  Both are immune to "person" magic effects, while the outsider gets DR 10 magic, the elemental ceases to need food, water or air as well as becoming immune to critical hits and flanking.  This is only offset by being susceptible to turning effects or other elemental magics, but this is at 20HD.So, by the numbers, I see there are 12 things that are at least marginally better by my view, and 6 things which are worse.  However, those six are fairly big losses in strength.  So it come back to that intuitive feeling of matching up values.  Do other people see my analysis differently?</blockquote>

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