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<blockquote data-quote="Coredump" data-source="post: 2137034" data-attributes="member: 6939">Okay, before I get into whether I think Keen and IC should stack....SKR's rant is pathetic. His logic is flawed, and is math is just plain wrong.First: His continual rant about crits being &quot;100% confimred&quot; or &quot;75% confirmed&quot; is just balderdash.&nbsp; We are calculating average damage per *hit*, not per attack. The math fact is that a crit range of 18-20 will have a confirmed crit on 15% of the *hits*. IOW, the numbers he uses for &quot;100% confirmed&quot; is the actual correct number. The garbage he spouts about &quot;optimum...&quot; and &quot;75%&quot; is wrong and misleading. (okay, there is a slight caveat. the percentage will be *slightly* less, for those times when an 18 or 19 don't hit.)Second: The bit about the first attack being 'optimum' for the crit, and the iterative ones being less likely to hit....ARGH!&nbsp; They are also less likely to *hit*. But the same math facts exist, on average the crit will happen 15% of the time. (Slightly larger caveat, it is a *bit* more likely that an 18 or 19 will not hit on the iterative attacks.)Third: Rapiers cannot&nbsp; be used to get 1.5 str. bonusFourth:He acts like a str of 24 is a really hard number to get for a 10+ lvl fighter to get.Fifth: He compares Imp Crit with weap spec, forgeting that weap spec makes crit even better. (as do all things that add to the base damage)Sixth: In the Greatsword comparison, he totally ignores the enchantment bonus to damage.Seventh:&nbsp; He is comparing weapons, not abilities. The Rapier is not known for dealing damage, it is known for being finessable.&nbsp; Either try several weapons to see if they can max out, or try the same weapon with various enchantment combinations. Some weapons are just plain better, the longsword will always do more damage than the flail.... except against skeletons.(There are more issues when reviewing the original rant...but this should be enough.)I am not saying that they should not stack, my preliminary math shows that it just isn't that big of a deal. But for someone that claims &quot;designed to be by the original core designers, who crunched all the numbers&quot; he does a pathetically bad job of 'crunching the numbers'.At some point I will finish my geek out and try some other combinations to see how the real math works out. (Staffan has already done a pretty good job.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Coredump, post: 2137034, member: 6939"] Okay, before I get into whether I think Keen and IC should stack.... SKR's rant is pathetic. His logic is flawed, and is math is just plain wrong. First: His continual rant about crits being "100% confimred" or "75% confirmed" is just balderdash. We are calculating average damage per *hit*, not per attack. The math fact is that a crit range of 18-20 will have a confirmed crit on 15% of the *hits*. IOW, the numbers he uses for "100% confirmed" is the actual correct number. The garbage he spouts about "optimum..." and "75%" is wrong and misleading. (okay, there is a slight caveat. the percentage will be *slightly* less, for those times when an 18 or 19 don't hit.) Second: The bit about the first attack being 'optimum' for the crit, and the iterative ones being less likely to hit....ARGH! They are also less likely to *hit*. But the same math facts exist, on average the crit will happen 15% of the time. (Slightly larger caveat, it is a *bit* more likely that an 18 or 19 will not hit on the iterative attacks.) Third: Rapiers cannot be used to get 1.5 str. bonus Fourth:He acts like a str of 24 is a really hard number to get for a 10+ lvl fighter to get. Fifth: He compares Imp Crit with weap spec, forgeting that weap spec makes crit even better. (as do all things that add to the base damage) Sixth: In the Greatsword comparison, he totally ignores the enchantment bonus to damage. Seventh: He is comparing weapons, not abilities. The Rapier is not known for dealing damage, it is known for being finessable. Either try several weapons to see if they can max out, or try the same weapon with various enchantment combinations. Some weapons are just plain better, the longsword will always do more damage than the flail.... except against skeletons. (There are more issues when reviewing the original rant...but this should be enough.) I am not saying that they should not stack, my preliminary math shows that it just isn't that big of a deal. But for someone that claims "designed to be by the original core designers, who crunched all the numbers" he does a pathetically bad job of 'crunching the numbers'. At some point I will finish my geek out and try some other combinations to see how the real math works out. (Staffan has already done a pretty good job.) [/QUOTE]

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