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<blockquote data-quote="Rystil Arden" data-source="post: 2139917" data-attributes="member: 29014">Testament:The gnome Illusion DC thing is a new addition in 3.5, but the character could have been a Sun Elf to the same effect, I suppose.&nbsp; To be fair, unless the target is a Rogue, they will have at least one of the two saves they get on PK as good saves. Monks, Druids, and Clerics have both, and Paladins will do even better than the others.&nbsp; So give the person saving one good save with a 16 in the relevant stat and one bad save with 12 in the relevant stat.&nbsp; This is a highly conservative estimate, and it means that the caster has spent two feats on saves and the target has spent none, and has no magic items to help.&nbsp; Phantasmal Killer will still kill the target less than 50% of the time (99/200 to be precise).&nbsp; Now give the target the appropriate feat (Iron Will or Great Fortitude) in the bad save, since they know that +3 to that save isn't going to cut it.&nbsp; Now the spell succeeds only 44% of the time, and the caster has spent two feats and a racial ability on this while the target has only spent one.&nbsp; If the target is one of the classes mentioned above, it will succeed even less, except for Rogue.&nbsp; If we bring in magic items, the gnome probably gets a +4 Int item and the target might reasonably have +2 items for the two save stats and a +2 cloak of resistance (this combo for the target costs less than the +4 item alone), which puts the success chances down to 37.5%.&nbsp; 37.5% isn't great, btu its a reasonable use fo a 4th-level spell, I suppose.&nbsp; Take away prodigy and nerf Spell Focus, and the poor gnome is left with a 26% chance of success: she'd need to shoot off 4 of these spells before expected value E[success] &gt;= 1.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rystil Arden, post: 2139917, member: 29014"] Testament: The gnome Illusion DC thing is a new addition in 3.5, but the character could have been a Sun Elf to the same effect, I suppose. To be fair, unless the target is a Rogue, they will have at least one of the two saves they get on PK as good saves. Monks, Druids, and Clerics have both, and Paladins will do even better than the others. So give the person saving one good save with a 16 in the relevant stat and one bad save with 12 in the relevant stat. This is a highly conservative estimate, and it means that the caster has spent two feats on saves and the target has spent none, and has no magic items to help. Phantasmal Killer will still kill the target less than 50% of the time (99/200 to be precise). Now give the target the appropriate feat (Iron Will or Great Fortitude) in the bad save, since they know that +3 to that save isn't going to cut it. Now the spell succeeds only 44% of the time, and the caster has spent two feats and a racial ability on this while the target has only spent one. If the target is one of the classes mentioned above, it will succeed even less, except for Rogue. If we bring in magic items, the gnome probably gets a +4 Int item and the target might reasonably have +2 items for the two save stats and a +2 cloak of resistance (this combo for the target costs less than the +4 item alone), which puts the success chances down to 37.5%. 37.5% isn't great, btu its a reasonable use fo a 4th-level spell, I suppose. Take away prodigy and nerf Spell Focus, and the poor gnome is left with a 26% chance of success: she'd need to shoot off 4 of these spells before expected value E[success] >= 1. [/QUOTE]

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