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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Camarath" data-source="post: 1469924" data-attributes="member: 11987">I agree, as written use of the feat does not require one to actually make an attack or a damage roll, of course if neither is made use of the feat provides no actual in game effect but it does provide the potential for an effect if either of the events it affects occurs. I believe that Dimwhit is suggesting that the attack and damage modifers are linked on a per occurrence basis (but set before any attack occurs), rather than on a per round basis, such that if no number is subtracted from a melee attack roll due to there being no melee attack roll for a specific melee damage roll then "the same number" which is added to that melee damage roll equals 0 since nothing was subtracted from the melee attack roll assocated with that melee damage roll because there was no melee attack roll and one can not apply a penalty or a bonus to a non-occurrence. I do not believe that this assertion can be substantiated by the text because the text does not provide a per case connection between the application of a penalty to a specific attack roll and a bouns to a resulting damage roll. There is the general connection of the bonus to all melee damage rolls being equal to the penalty to all melee attack rolls but that connection is per use of the Power Attack feat (which remains in effect until its user's next turn) not per attack roll/damage roll coupling. Since I do not believe that a specific application of the bouns is dependant upon a specific application of the penalty it seems logical that the bonus should apply to all melee damage rolls even if there is no accompanying melee attack roll to apply the penalty to.Also I would like to assert that a Coup de Grace does not necessarily eliminate the attack roll even thought it may eliminate the need for the attack roll. IMO since you "hit" with a Coup de Grace action you are making an attack. Nothing in the Coup de Grace entry say that there is no attack roll associated with your attack only that you automatically hit. The Glossary defines an Automatic Hit as "An attack that hits regardless of target AC.". Thus it would seem to me that when preforming a Coup de Grace action one would (or could) still roll an attack that would hit on anything (except perhaps a natural one in which case I am not sure what the correct outcome should be since that would be both an Automatic Miss and an Automatic Hit).</blockquote>

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