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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tatsukun" data-source="post: 1485122" data-attributes="member: 15511">I don't really understand the argument that power attack makes the save DC too high argument. I think it has a lot more to do with the crit multiplier. Since I am bored to tears today, let’s look at average CdG damage with different weapons; with and without different power attacks. Let’s assume a 3rd level fighter with a STR of 14. Dagger (1D4+2)x2 = 9 (Can’t PA with a dagger) Club (1D6+2)x2 = 11 (PA & Club) (1D6+2+3)x2 = 17 (wielded in two hands & PA) (1D6+3+6)x2 = 25 Longsword (1d8+2)x2 = 13 (PA & Longsword) (1D8+2+3)x2 = 19 (wielded in two hands & PA) (1D8+3+6)x2 = 27 Handaxe (1D6+2)x3 = 16.5 (PA & Handaxe) (1D6+2+3)x3 = 25.5 (wielded in two hands & PA) (1D6+3+6)x3 = 37.5 Greatsword (2D6+3)x2 = 20 (PA & Greatsword) (2D6+3+6)x2 = 32 Heavy Pick (1D6+2)x4 = 28 (PA & Heavy Pick) (1D6+2+3)x4 = 34 (Club wielded in two hands & PA) (1D6+3+6)x4 = 50 Greatmaul (2D6+3)x3 = 30 (PA & Greatmaul) (2D6+3+6)x3 = 48 Scythe (2D4+3)x4 = 32 (PA & scythe) (2D4+3+6)x4 = 56 It looks to me that it’s not really PA that’s making a huge difference all by itself, the crit multiplier and the handedness are having a big effect two. Of course, a high crit multiplier, AND PA, AND two handed, are making a huge difference. The handaxe is much better than the club just because of it’s x3 multiplier. It’s even a lot better than the Longsword, which does more damage (1D8). The heavy Pick, with it’s x4 multiplier is better even than the greatsword (the weapon of choice for most every smart fighter). The greatmaul and greatsword do more damage than the scythe, but the scythe’s x4 multiplier is making it the best CdG’er in the game. All and all, I don't think it matters much game-wise. If you are hit with a CdG with a longsword (swiched to two hands before doing it) you have a fort save DC 29. For the average person, that's a 'save only on a 20' situation (that is, you save 5% of the time). If you allow PA, the DC is 37. You will still save only on a 20 (5%). Since most fighters in D&D use either a longsword, bastard sword, or greatsword the CdG saves will usually be survived 'only on a 20'. I don't see a big difference except the round of high fives the player gets with his 56 point CdG with his scythe (which until that moment has been very substandard).  -Tatsu</blockquote>

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