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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6776400" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>Well, if that's how you feel. How do you limit your conception of 'traditional fantasy' to avoid such bits as armor-wearing, sword-wielding, and horse-riding medieval heroes? </p><p></p><p>Though, like FR or Greyhawk, it's hard to tease out what's the setting influencing the system and what's the setting conforming to the system, since Glorantha and RQ (& White Wolf/Red Moon) were linked from the beginning. Whereas with Tekumel you can clearly see the setting taking precedence over the adapted-from-D&D system.</p><p></p><p>The marked expansion in magic items was already happening in 1e, and was just crazy by late 2e, 'excessive amounts of magic' were an issue that EGG warned us about in an early Dragon article, and magic 'doing far more' started with Eldritch Wizardry. </p><p></p><p>I'll concede that magic has worked much more dependably vs high-level targets starting with 3e, though, and that's one notable thing that 5e hasn't reversed.</p><p></p><p>You could also bring up at-will magic or the impossibility of interrupting spell-casting, or the profound flexibility of the neo-Vancian magic system.</p><p></p><p>There had been a long-term trend throughout D&D's history to make casting easier, more plentiful, and more dependable, while bringing down it's outright power slightly in (mostly inadequate) compensation. 5e continued that trend, except that instead of inadequately ratcheting down raw power in a token attempt to balance the increased availability/ease/flexibility of casting, it dialed it right back back up again. </p><p></p><p>Codification of more skills, anyway, since that started with the Thief in Greyhawk, and expanded greatly with the 1e Survival Guides and 2e - but it peaked in 3.x/PF, and 5e has fairly mushy skills that don't make a huge impact relative to what untrained characters can do, unless a class feature like Expertise comes into it. Which really gets pretty close in feel to later AD&D.</p><p></p><p>Only because it's on the way to AD&D. ;P</p><p></p><p>Or the combos of disparate ones could be broken. Take a race from one setting and a class from another and some spells & feats from a few splatbooks and you might come up with something game-breaking in 3.5, for instance - but then, CoDzilla straight outta the PH could break the game, too.</p><p></p><p> Book-selling hooks? Sure, people were clamoring for some of the traditional races/classes in PH2 and classes in PH3. Balance issues? Not really, not that balance issues in 4e are comparable in magnitude (or duration, thanks to rapid <s>errata</s> updates) to those of other editions. </p><p></p><p>"The Gnome Effect." Sure.</p><p></p><p>It does seem the very definition of narrow-minded, OneTrueWayism, yes. But, it's easy enough to ignore such material if you want, so not a big deal.</p><p></p><p>Balance is not an issue in 5e, certainly - it's on the DM's shoulders, regardless of how much or little of the available options he decides to allow. But, while it may be 'easier' to adapt a setting if you toss all the unique mechanical elements of it out, are you really adapting the setting, or are you just running a generic setting with different proper nouns?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6776400, member: 996"] Well, if that's how you feel. How do you limit your conception of 'traditional fantasy' to avoid such bits as armor-wearing, sword-wielding, and horse-riding medieval heroes? Though, like FR or Greyhawk, it's hard to tease out what's the setting influencing the system and what's the setting conforming to the system, since Glorantha and RQ (& White Wolf/Red Moon) were linked from the beginning. Whereas with Tekumel you can clearly see the setting taking precedence over the adapted-from-D&D system. The marked expansion in magic items was already happening in 1e, and was just crazy by late 2e, 'excessive amounts of magic' were an issue that EGG warned us about in an early Dragon article, and magic 'doing far more' started with Eldritch Wizardry. I'll concede that magic has worked much more dependably vs high-level targets starting with 3e, though, and that's one notable thing that 5e hasn't reversed. You could also bring up at-will magic or the impossibility of interrupting spell-casting, or the profound flexibility of the neo-Vancian magic system. There had been a long-term trend throughout D&D's history to make casting easier, more plentiful, and more dependable, while bringing down it's outright power slightly in (mostly inadequate) compensation. 5e continued that trend, except that instead of inadequately ratcheting down raw power in a token attempt to balance the increased availability/ease/flexibility of casting, it dialed it right back back up again. Codification of more skills, anyway, since that started with the Thief in Greyhawk, and expanded greatly with the 1e Survival Guides and 2e - but it peaked in 3.x/PF, and 5e has fairly mushy skills that don't make a huge impact relative to what untrained characters can do, unless a class feature like Expertise comes into it. Which really gets pretty close in feel to later AD&D. Only because it's on the way to AD&D. ;P Or the combos of disparate ones could be broken. Take a race from one setting and a class from another and some spells & feats from a few splatbooks and you might come up with something game-breaking in 3.5, for instance - but then, CoDzilla straight outta the PH could break the game, too. Book-selling hooks? Sure, people were clamoring for some of the traditional races/classes in PH2 and classes in PH3. Balance issues? Not really, not that balance issues in 4e are comparable in magnitude (or duration, thanks to rapid [s]errata[/s] updates) to those of other editions. "The Gnome Effect." Sure. It does seem the very definition of narrow-minded, OneTrueWayism, yes. But, it's easy enough to ignore such material if you want, so not a big deal. Balance is not an issue in 5e, certainly - it's on the DM's shoulders, regardless of how much or little of the available options he decides to allow. But, while it may be 'easier' to adapt a setting if you toss all the unique mechanical elements of it out, are you really adapting the setting, or are you just running a generic setting with different proper nouns? [/QUOTE]
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