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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hamburger Mary" data-source="post: 1601887" data-attributes="member: 17363">I must respectfully disagree. I'm just going to be repeating what I said in my previous post, but... the warforged were not created using standard magical techniques. They were created using the creation forges, which are artifacts with unknown capabilities. It's thus possible that we are discussing the difference between building a car by hand and building one with a fully modern assembly line and team of engineers at your disposal. Since we don't know the capabilities or nature of the creation forges, we don't know that they are expensive to use. This is not the case of an isolated wizard building a personalized golem -- it is a house of artificers that has been around for centuries, making use of a powerful magical artifact to enhance their capabilities. Craft is a class skill for the fighter. A 2nd-level fighter -- listed as the most common form of warforged can have 5 ranks of Craft, which is quite serviceable. Split them up between armorers, weaponsmiths, and fletchers and the army can repair damage to itself and its equipment. Well, depending on the nature of it, artifacts are priceless. The question is where the artifacts came from. I doubt that they were built for the war or specifically for the warforged -- Cannith has been around for over a thousand years. There is also the evidence that warforged were used in Xen'drik, and the slight implication that Cannith may have lifted the knowledge of their construction from Xen'drik. So again, I think this isn't an expense you can tack onto the warforged themselves; it's a pre-existing resource that facilitates their construction. That's been clearly contradicted by Hellcow on the WotC boards. *ALL* warforged do not have the SAME inherent knowledge -- IE, skill bonuses -- because the race is designed to be flexible; you could build a wizard warforged or a fighter warforged, and there is no need for them to possess the same skills. But it's clearly established that they would be "born" with their skills. Hellcow specifically said that the standard warforged would come off the line with the skills and abilities of a 2nd-level fighter (using the elite array, no less), as described below:Warforged Ftr2; CR 2; Medium humanoid (living construct); HD 2d10+6; hp 21; Init +1; Spd 20 ft; AC 21 (+1 Dex, +2 heavy steel shield, +8 Adamantine Body); Base Atk +2; Grap +4; Atk +4 melee (1d8+2, longsword); Full Atk +4 melee (1d8+2, longsword); SQ Damage reduction 2/adamantine, warforged traits; AL N; SV Fort +6, Ref +1, Will +0; Str 15, Dex 13, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 6.Skills and Feats: Craft (armorsmith) +5, Intimidate +3; Adamantine Body, Cleave, Power Attack. Note the Craft skill.You do make an interesting point about Karrn undead. However, this would be where the rivalry between Thrane and Karrnath would be a particular issue, since theocratic Thrane would probably have commanders who could turn the undead forces. As for ease of creation, note that the skeletons have been "treated alchemically", "imbued with malign intelligence", and "created from the remains of elite Karrnathi soldiers" (emphasis added) -- so we don't know how difficult they are to make, either. But you're right, setting aside the possibility of turning, the skeletons do make a solid match for the base warforged.</blockquote>

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