Eberron (rant about the wizard board & convince me to buy)

[RisnDevil]

I didn't want to start to seperate threads, so I am starting this off with a bit of a rant. I posted pretty much the same thing on the Wizards boards about asking for people to convince me to buy Eberron (I will pretty much post my exact text later) and the first, and nearly only, replies I have received decried me as a troll. This blows my mind. Several times, here at EN World, I have seen people ask to be convinced of this that or the other, usually in regards to giving something a chance. Every time I have seen such a thread, the response is usually to show the merits of said system or books. Instead, at Wizards, I was called a troll and told that even if I wasn't, it was the job of Wizards marketing to sell me on the setting anyways, not theirs! Long story short, I am just incredulous about their reaction to my post. I even posted in the Eberron specific forums hoping that true fans of the setting would "defend" it to me. Oh well, moving on.....

I bought the ECS. Had some cool stuff. Like some of the ideas from the setting. Have yet to buy another Eberron book, and not sure if I will. I buy almost all of the FR books, and got rid of though plan to rebuy all the SL books, but I don't play in either world. There is so much quality material in them, that I like reading them, fluff and all. But with Eberron, I get so much focus on guilds, or families, or whatever, and dragon-marks, most of which I can't stand. So why should I buy any more of the books? I like quality crunch, so is the crunch good enough to forgive the fluff. Convince me to buy more Eberron. What crunch is so good it is worth buying the setting books for, or what fluff is universal and inspiring enough to buy more?

Thanks,
RisnDevil

 

[Piratecat]

I was suspicious of Eberron, since I run my own campaign world and probably won't ever run a campaign set there. Wow, am I glad I got the book. It's full of cool yoinkable ideas and neat concepts -- from the vermin-based Children of Winter druidic sect, to a model of a world run by powerful political houses, to nifty new races, to an adventuring setting that makes it easy to get to the adventure, so that you can have that much more fun in the actual adventure itself.

Before I read it, I would have rated its importance for my campaign a 3 or 4 out of 10. After I read it, I'd rate it a 7 or 8.

 

[Ashrum the Black]

Well, I'd have to say that if you hate the Houses, and the Marks the you can always remove them form the world. But that does tend to leave a power vacume that would need to be filled by the DM. Possibly replacing them with Noble Houses sworn directly to Galifur instead of a specific nation and they remained aloof during the war waiting for a victor to oncve again swear to. Now they actually have found they like not having any master but themselves and work behind the scenes to ensure the strife continues.

Make the setting your own and replace what you don't like with somehting you do. I've never been fnd of the relams overmuch, but my last campaign took place there. I took what I didn't like, and replaced it with features I did and came up with a very interesting world to play in.

The crunch of the setting is very good IMHO. It takes the world in directions that make the integration of magic into the day to day lives of the commoner make since. A world where every little town the PC's visit has some form of spellcaster would tend to have items of magic to make life easier. The elemental bondings are a great mechanic and out growth of the use of elementals as power sources. The expansion of the druid into a power group and making the differant sects actually distinct. The new races a very cool, and so are the prestige classes that work with them. I'd say even if you're looking to run a Realms campaign, I'd still buy the Eberron books that have the most instesting crunch and add what you like to the Realms.

For my money this would mean the Eberron main book, Races of Eberron, and Magic of Eerron. The others are heavy on fluff and light on crunch and may not serve. Although the Sharn book would be awsome to add Sharn into the Realms, perhaps as a city in Thay or even in the South. An upstart city seeking to upstage Waterdeep, a city with a darker feel. Would you be able to use it word for word, probably not, but it would supply tons of yoinkable material for a grand city to use.

-Ashrum

 

[Henry]

I'm a little different from PKitty on it, perhaps: Having bought into Eberron, our group is playing in it, and loving it. I feel, though, that if your primary goal is good crunch mechanics, there haven't been any real "show-stoppers" in the already-released material. You might be better off with books like Tome of Magic, Spell Compendium, Weapons of Legacy, etc. If you want good "crunch," you DEFINITELY need to check out Player's Handbook 2!!! (my favorite of recent.)

As for your reception over on Wizards, two things to consider:

1) The user-base is a bit larger. In ALL public forums, here included, the larger the user base, the lower signal-to-noise ratio.

2) You have to take into account the environment. Could've been that people have been asking that question a lot, and you were just the lottery winner on the "make an example of someone" lottery. Had you been starting a thread on 4th Edition speculation here at ENWorld two months ago, you might not have liked us very much, either.

Hope this helps!

 

[Barak]

About the reception at Wizards:

Henry brings up good points. Also, just because something is commonly done here doesn't mean that people on another board will understand that you were honestly looking to being "sold". I can easily look at your post and see it as a "Hehe you guys are silly, Eberron sucks, FR is much better, and I'll say that in a way that doesn't get me in trouble!"

Now, because this sort of post is common here, we assume that that is not what you are doing (correctly). But if such posts were never/rarely made, it would be more difficult to know.

 

[theredrobedwizard]

I'm truly confused. You don't like most of the cool things about Eberron, yet you like FR?

Eberron: Focus on action adventure gameplay and the political machinations of a dozen world spanning guild-families.
FR: Drizz't, Drizz't, Drizz't, Drizz't, Elminster, Drizz't, Drizz't, the Simbul, Drizz't, Elminster.

The reason you were accosted for trolling on the WotC boards is because there were probably about 15 other threads on the first two pages about "sell me on Eberron". The guys there are starting to get sick of it every other day. Just read the existing threads then post specific questions.

-TRRW

 

[Plane Sailing]

So why should I buy any more of the books? I like quality crunch, so is the crunch good enough to forgive the fluff. Convince me to buy more Eberron. What crunch is so good it is worth buying the setting books for, or what fluff is universal and inspiring enough to buy more?

I take it from this part of your post that you are most interest in things beyond the Eberron campaign book?

I've got most of the things, and I'll rate them as follows

Five Nations +
I especially liked the prestige classes in this book (coming from someone who doesn't like prestige classes in most of their incarnations), but there is obviously going to be lots more context than crunch here, so probably not so good for you.

Magic of Eberron -
I wish I hadn't wasted my money on this one. It doesn't really investigate further some of the most interesting aspects of Eberron (e.g. possession etc) and introduces brand new stuff that didn't have any precedent (plant implants?) and didn't do a very flavourful job on the stuff it did include. Not for me, BUT, you may get something out of the new crunch mechanisms!

Races of Eberron =
I'm in two minds here. I felt that the writers loved the shifters and gave them lots and lots of stuff, I disliked the additional characterisation they gave to warforged, changelings and kalashtar and IMC I stick to the writeups in the ECS. Some of the feats are pretty good though, and some of the prestiges classes are not too bad (although I decided to turn the atavist prestige class into a series of feats)

Sharn, City of Towers =
To all intents and purposes a major fluff book. I enjoyed reading it, although the organisation could have been improved (I've scanned all the maps and put the page number of the city wards on each map, for instance). Very little crunch for you here.

Explorers Handbook +
This is a gem of a book. Some nice useable prestige classes, and special encounter areas for showcasing different aspects of Eberron - travel via lightning rail/skyship, destinations in various wild and woolly areas.

That's my take on them.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

I didn't want to start to seperate threads, so I am starting this off with a bit of a rant. I posted pretty much the same thing on the Wizards boards about asking for people to convince me to buy Eberron (I will pretty much post my exact text later) and the first, and nearly only, replies I have received decried me as a troll. This blows my mind. Several times, here at EN World, I have seen people ask to be convinced of this that or the other, usually in regards to giving something a chance. Every time I have seen such a thread, the response is usually to show the merits of said system or books. Instead, at Wizards, I was called a troll and told that even if I wasn't, it was the job of Wizards marketing to sell me on the setting anyways, not theirs! Long story short, I am just incredulous about their reaction to my post. I even posted in the Eberron specific forums hoping that true fans of the setting would "defend" it to me. Oh well, moving on.....

I bought the ECS. Had some cool stuff. Like some of the ideas from the setting. Have yet to buy another Eberron book, and not sure if I will. I buy almost all of the FR books, and got rid of though plan to rebuy all the SL books, but I don't play in either world. There is so much quality material in them, that I like reading them, fluff and all. But with Eberron, I get so much focus on guilds, or families, or whatever, and dragon-marks, most of which I can't stand. So why should I buy any more of the books? I like quality crunch, so is the crunch good enough to forgive the fluff. Convince me to buy more Eberron. What crunch is so good it is worth buying the setting books for, or what fluff is universal and inspiring enough to buy more?

Thanks,
RisnDevil

I will tell you as an Eberron fan that you won't like it.

Things like Dragonmarked Houses are a big part of the setting. If you say you don't like it, it's a pretty obvious signal to Eberron fans that you won't like Eberron. I'm not a big fan of crunch and don't buy WotC books for crunch anymore.

Every board has topics "you don't talk about". For instance, you don't talk about katanas on the D20 Modern boards. You don't mention FR, even in passing, on the Eberron boards. Many of its fans, like myself, are "refugees" of that settings, know it inside out, and don't like it.

 

[Kesh]

To be honest, I can see why the Wizard's board folks thought it might be a troll. Not only is that where the rabid fans hang out the most (guilty as charged!), but it seems like you're tossing out the part most folks find best about the setting: the fluff.

That said, the crunch is pretty good too. The new races are great, and have plenty of support material.

But, Eberron's biggest strength is in the fluff: places, people, adventure ideas, descriptions, etc.

 

[lukelightning]

On a side note, I don't particularly care for "convince me to buy X" or "sell me on X" subjects. They seem somewhat adversarial.

And given the fact that there are many resources for getting reviews I don't see why these posts are needed. If you have specific questions I think it's better to say your actual question.