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Message: <blockquote data-quote="LightPhoenix" data-source="post: 4102130" data-attributes="member: 115">Well yes, Artificers could be everything, due to some rediculously wonky and broken mechanics... as people have demonstrated anecdotally many times.  And as D.Shaffer stated, if you go by the fluff, it's readily apparent they are meant to be Leaders, as a role.  Now, 3E didn't have roles, and the general 3E philosophy towards "support" classes was to pile stuff on until they were overpowered and people would want to play them (see Cleric).  Granted, the next logical place to take them is from allied support to enemy frustration - ie, from buffing to cursing.  So yes, I agree that by piling on abilties for the support players, they made a class that could in fact be a controller.However, now we're talking 4E, and in 4E classes have defined roles.  So taking the Artificer back to it's original concept - Leader.Which is probably why it's limited to wands.I'm inclined to agree.  The problem with a multi-role class is, IMO, that it is exceedingly difficult to make a class where the two roles would mesh together without making the character weaker.  In the end what I think would end up happening is that players would choose one path or the other.  Which begs the question - why not just make it two classes and flesh out both of the concepts? D&D has almost always been a game of specialization over generality.  That is to say, doing one thing well is worth much more than doing a lot merely "okay".  This is simply because of the nature of the game played as a cooperative group, and it's inherent to every version of D&D.  It's better for each person to do one thing well.  That was the biggest problem with the 3E Bard - it could do a lot "okay," but it took a lot of work to make it do anything well.So, rather than try to cover a whole group of bases with the Artificer, I'm of the opinion they should stick to one and do it right.As an aside (to others), there's no rule that there can only be one source/role combination.  There's no real need to come up with a new power source for the artificer.  Make them Arcane, and avoid having to come up with new classes to justify a power source when it's not necessary.</blockquote>

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