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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1221661" data-attributes="member: 5777">Hate it when the message board eats posts <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" />will try to rehash briefly what I said, if it seems a bit terse its only from having to redue it multiple times <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I'll try a brief acid test.HumanBarbarian 88d12 + 8xcon mod (avg 57.5 + 8xcon)BAB +8F+6 R+2 W+2Skills 55 + 8xint modFast movement, illiteracy, Uncanny dodge, Improved uncanny dodge, Trap sense +2, Damage reduction 1/—, Rage 3/dayBonus feat, favored class any, +1 to a statGithyanki (+2)Barb 66d12 + 6xcon mod (avg 44.5 +6 from extra con +6xcon mod)BAB +6F+5 R+2 W+2Skills 36 + 6xint modFast movement, illiteracy, rage 1/day, Uncanny dodge, Rage 2/dayImproved uncanny dodge, Trap sense +2+2 dex, +2 con, -2 wisdom60 foot darkvisiondaze and mage hand 3/dayat 3rd level blur 3/dayat 6th level dimension door 3/day**at 9th level telekinesis 3/day and plane shift 1/day** wont have for 3 more levelsspell resistance 5 + level = 11 currentlyfavored class fighterI purposely picked the level difference where they are about the closest they come in power, and in my estimation the human barb still wins out hands down just based on these few numbers. If I had used a dwarf instead the gith would look even worse. If I had used a spellcaster of some kind the difference would have been even more extreme.This is why imo they just arent worth the +2, most of the time the numbers above are even worse (especially at low levels like one and at the high end levels). The SR is negligable most of the time (CR 8 creatures that cast usually have a caster level of 8 or higher, so they have to roll a 3 or better, 1 or better if they have spell penetration or an item that does something similar). The extra abilities are nice but fluffy, you could buy similar items to help you out or have other party members cast them for you.All in all if this isnt convincing check out the level 3 barb human vs level 1 barb gith, and the level 20 barb human vs 18 gith. It just isnt pretty <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> the beanies are very nice and shiny, but not worth what is given up.</blockquote>

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