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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mmu1" data-source="post: 1581664" data-attributes="member: 319">You can have a race that's composed of Native Outsiders and bypass the whole issue, banishment is high-level and rather difficult to do, and hedging out only works if the thing's been summoned.(I actually made a mistake earlier, BTW - Lizardmen are Humanoids, not Monstrous Humanoids. If they were the latter, the +2 ECL would be more justified, since Monstrous Humanoids actually get a Fighter's BAB and two good saves.)Regardless, there are other races I could use to make the same point - according to the rules, two HD of "Dragon" (d12, good BAB, all good saves, 6 skill points per HD) are worth the same ECL as two HD of "Fey" (d6, poor BAB, two good saves, 2 skill points per HD). The ECL rules are absurd.</blockquote>