ECL of Epic Templates

[kreynolds]

...he wants to come back as a Paragon Pseudonatural Human Monk...

 

[Crothian]

One of the PC's in my campaign just died. Now he wants to come back as a Paragon Pseudonatural Human Monk.

Wow, not that will be a powerful creature. What level monk is he going to be?

 

[Forrester]

Okay, now that you fixed that, kreynolds, I can tell you why you're wrong .


Goblins go from 4hp to 28hp -- x7.
Balors go from 110hp to 416hp -- about x4.

Goblins go from d8 damage to d8+30 (avg 5 to 35) -- x7.
Balors go from 2d6+8 damage to 2d6+35 (avg 15 to 42) -- ab
out x3.

In every instance, low HD creatures are getting PROPORTIONALLY a lot more out of being a Paragon creature -- this is why it makes a lot of sense for low HD creatures to get a higher CR boost.

Now, I don't know whether paragon goblins should get a boost from CR .25 to CR18.25, but I think that they're tougher than CR12.

 

[Orco42]

Wow, not that will be a powerful creature. What level monk is he going to be?

Level 1 monk (Total level including ecl is 35).

I advised not taking both of the templates due to a VERY low number of HP's for a 35th level character but he still wanted to do it. He was smart enough to take Epic Toughness a few times but still is FAR behind the rest of the party.

He does have an AC of 97 and has DR 20/+6. But his saves are only in the mid 20's and his SR isn't great. Plus his BAB will never be greater than +0 (since he is already an epic character).

My guess is that he will die in the first session.

 

[kreynolds]

Okay, now that you fixed that, kreynolds, I can tell you why you're wrong .

Actually, I was still sticking to my original opinion. There was just something about the CR modifiers that made sense to me, but I couldn't put my finger on it, and when I tried to break it down, with the hit points, it just didn't sit well with me, thus the "wierd" comment.

In every instance, low HD creatures are getting PROPORTIONALLY a lot more out of being a Paragon creature -- this is why it makes a lot of sense for low HD creatures to get a higher CR boost.

That's what I figured it was all about, and it's what I've been telling everyone too. Whooo *wipes forehead*

 

[The Iron Mark]

Actually I think his BAB will increase since he doesn't have 20 class levels. But I could be wrong. Keeping BAB at +0 just seems plain mean to me.

 

[Orco42]

Actually I think his BAB will increase since he doesn't have 20 class levels. But I could be wrong. Keeping BAB at +0 just seems plain mean to me.

I am pretty sure that is right he just gets epic attack bonuses from now on since the total character level is over 20. But now you have me thinking since he only has 1 HD maybe you are right. I will have to check the EHL to find out for sure.

 

[Forrester]

Level 1 monk (Total level including ecl is 35).

I advised not taking both of the templates due to a VERY low number of HP's for a 35th level character but he still wanted to do it. He was smart enough to take Epic Toughness a few times but still is FAR behind the rest of the party.

He does have an AC of 97 and has DR 20/+6. But his saves are only in the mid 20's and his SR isn't great. Plus his BAB will never be greater than +0 (since he is already an epic character).

My guess is that he will die in the first session.

First of all, how did he take Epic Toughness "A few times"? He gets two feats, right?

Second of all, how did he get epic feats? His class level isn't above 20.

 

[Orco42]

First of all, how did he take Epic Toughness "A few times"? He gets two feats, right?

Second of all, how did he get epic feats? His class level isn't above 20.

He gets 4 feats. The 2 from monk level 1 and the other 2 are bonus for one of the 2 templates (I forget which).

His character level is over 20. Powerful monsters with no class levels (LeShay is one IIRC) get epic feats.

 

[kreynolds]

Second of all, how did he get epic feats? His class level isn't above 20.

Orco42 is correct. You don't have to have 20 class levels to be epic. You just need an ECL of 21 or higher, so it's based off of character level, not class level.