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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Madfox" data-source="post: 885566" data-attributes="member: 1714">First of all I want to adress the discussion on flight. Personally, I find the ECL for Avoriels just for being able to fly way over the top. Flight is good and probably too good at low levels, but once you start approaching 6th level opponents will actually be ready to face flying opponents. The dowside of wings is also that they do not have perfect or good flight manouvrability. This means that they have to move each round or fall to the ground. Hence this flying nemesis cannot make a full-round attack, which at higher levels does hurt. Anyway, adjusting the ECL for flight -just as for any other movement ability like swim and climb- is highly campaign specific. For example, I am currently running an Underdark campaign with many small corridors and the like. Battles rarely take place in areas with enough space for a natural flyer to manoeuvre. Sometimes it would make it easier to cross a chasm, but at other places wings would not help because a straight vertical ascend or descend is needed (which again needs perfect manouvrability). Of course, the fighter with his boots of flying and the wizard can use it often enough, but that gives a perfect manoeuvrability. Last session the player learned that having a speed of 90 ft can also be a hindrance when he was dominated and ordered to fly away and wait at the back.Returning to the genasi's, I never gave much thought about the fire, water and air genasi except that I agree that they are too weak at ECL +1. I don't agree that thieflings and aasimar are to weak for ECL +1, but that might be because in my campaign the circumstances favoured their resistances rather well. They also used their darkvision to great effect. Also never underestimate the benefits of being an outsider. Being immune to hold person, dominate person and charm person can be a huge benefit now and then <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Now, I did have an earth genesi in a dwarf orientated campaign. I switched the -2 wisdom to -2 dex, since I always envision earth as being ponderous and carefull. I also gave them the stonecunning ability of dwarves. While still relative weak for an +1 ECL class, it did make that particular PC not too bad. In the end I do get the impression the designers chose slightly too high ECLs on purpose to get people to select core races in preference to weird races and to leave those open for role-players only. That though might just be me <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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