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ECL Races, EVER worth it?
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<blockquote data-quote="seankreynolds" data-source="post: 2455532" data-attributes="member: 3029"><p>But then you're treating NPCs differently than PCs. If you want to play a Small fire elemental, you should be able to be on fire all the time and use your burn ability all the time. Your tweaking of Innate Spell (which I admit is a smart way of looking at it, but unfortunately still isn't a fix) would mean that an NPC/monster Small fire elemental would be able to use those abilities all day, whereas a PC Small fire elemental would have limited uses per day ... in short, there would be extended periods of the day where he <em>simply wasn't on fire</em>.</p><p></p><p>The whole point of templates is that they act the same whether you use them on PCs or NPCs. With your Innate Spell tweak, we might as well have separate PC and NPC versions of each template and race ("you can play a PC drow, which gets no SR or SLAs, but not an NPC drow, which does"). Which sucks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Each effect would require a separate caster level check, so the odds are if you're facing a CR-appropriate challenge you'll only lose half of your monsters, which means you can direct the other half to hold off the first half while you use <em>dominate monster</em> on the guy who used the dispel....</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not necessarily. There's nothing stopping the ECL 6 (for example) PC from using it on a CR5 gang of 8 orcs. Or on a door the party rogue can't seem to open. Or over and over on a pool of water containing an aquatic monster until the water boils away. Or over and over on the bandit fortress from 400 feet away, well out of arrow range. Don't assume that just because the PC is ECL X that every situation they encounter is EL X. Part of the reason LA is different from CR is because PCs do things other than combat and their special abilities don't just have to reflect pure combat ability. A monster "pays for" his CR (an interesting way of putting it, by the way) <strong>only in combat</strong> and we don't have a way to evaluate them outside of combat (most creatures don't have a LA), whereas a PC "pays for" his EL in combat, out of combat, and all the livelong day.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="seankreynolds, post: 2455532, member: 3029"] But then you're treating NPCs differently than PCs. If you want to play a Small fire elemental, you should be able to be on fire all the time and use your burn ability all the time. Your tweaking of Innate Spell (which I admit is a smart way of looking at it, but unfortunately still isn't a fix) would mean that an NPC/monster Small fire elemental would be able to use those abilities all day, whereas a PC Small fire elemental would have limited uses per day ... in short, there would be extended periods of the day where he [i]simply wasn't on fire[/i]. The whole point of templates is that they act the same whether you use them on PCs or NPCs. With your Innate Spell tweak, we might as well have separate PC and NPC versions of each template and race ("you can play a PC drow, which gets no SR or SLAs, but not an NPC drow, which does"). Which sucks. Each effect would require a separate caster level check, so the odds are if you're facing a CR-appropriate challenge you'll only lose half of your monsters, which means you can direct the other half to hold off the first half while you use [i]dominate monster[/i] on the guy who used the dispel.... Not necessarily. There's nothing stopping the ECL 6 (for example) PC from using it on a CR5 gang of 8 orcs. Or on a door the party rogue can't seem to open. Or over and over on a pool of water containing an aquatic monster until the water boils away. Or over and over on the bandit fortress from 400 feet away, well out of arrow range. Don't assume that just because the PC is ECL X that every situation they encounter is EL X. Part of the reason LA is different from CR is because PCs do things other than combat and their special abilities don't just have to reflect pure combat ability. A monster "pays for" his CR (an interesting way of putting it, by the way) [b]only in combat[/b] and we don't have a way to evaluate them outside of combat (most creatures don't have a LA), whereas a PC "pays for" his EL in combat, out of combat, and all the livelong day. [/QUOTE]
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