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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Artoomis" data-source="post: 1447003" data-attributes="member: 111">(Of course, the Epic rules where written for 3.0, and the DMG statement for Epic Rules does not include the ECL bit.)Since ECL is used for starting equipment, should it also be used for determining the number of Vow of Poverty levels you have?   I ask since Vow of Poverty acts as replacement for equipment.Also, if ECL applies to anything other than exp. pts., equipment levels and EPIC levels please specify where it applies.  A number of things refer to "character level" which would intuitively mean ECL but really seems to mean Hit Die.  Any help clarifying this would be much appreciated.While we are at it, does ECL even apply for EPIC any more (since it is not mentioned in the DMG, but the DMG rules for EPIC are rather cursory)?</blockquote>