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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1448847" data-attributes="member: 6875">No, I don't use ECL for Vow of Poverty benefits - as with a spellcaster, that Vow is lessened in value if you have a level-adjusted race or template.  And, barring the changes made in the 3.5 update booklet or specific ELH errata, I generally consider the ELH to be the "primary source" for all things epic.  Thus, ECL tells you when you are or are not an epic character (thus ... everyone goes Epic at the same XP total), how much starting gold and XP you get, and what sorts of opposition you shoudl be able to face.  And in fact, one of my stronger builds for the Exodus is a level-adjusted Vow of Poverty Druid/Shifter ... Demetian (Druid(5)/Warshaper(5)/Epic Shifter(11), Human with the Saint template - which was houseruled in the Exodus to have a +4 level adjustment, not the +2 listed in the BoED).  Mind, I may be reworking him to use the Druidic Avenger variant class from Unearthed Arcana. (Mmmmmm, greater wildshape and rage!  Tasty! ^_^).  And yes, I have looked at how the Vow of Poverty's benefits should continue to improve as one enters Epic levels - but I applied very LITTLE of that, since Demetian (despite his ECL of 25) only has 21 actual character levels.  In the Exodus, you get both; if you are a Human Half-Dragon Fighter(22) - ECL 25, and this the right starting level for the Exodus - you count as an Epic character as of Fighter(18), whichis ECL21.  But you still get full BAB and saving throws fopr Fighter(18), Fighter(19), and Fighter(20) -- but not Epic Attack and Saves for those three levels.  IOW, BAB/EAB, Base Saves/Epic Saves ... counts only your ACTUAL character level.  But, "epic or not" in terms of feats and class eligibility is dependant on ECL.  That same Half-Dragon could be a Fighter(7)/Epic Weapon Master(15), if he preferred - when he achieves his 18th actual character level, being ECL21, he qualifies for epic progressions of any class he has the maximum pre-epic levels in.  So, if he had been a Fighter(7)/Weapon Master(10), he could take a level of Epic Weapon Master for his 18th character level.  The rationale behind that is - the character is paying the same XP, there's no reason IMO to double-dip them due to their LA.</blockquote>

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