Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
NOW LIVE! Today's the day you meet your new best friend. You don’t have to leave Wolfy behind... In 'Pets & Sidekicks' your companions level up with you!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Ecology of the Deathknight up
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Korgoth" data-source="post: 3811496" data-attributes="member: 49613"><p>What I mean is, they seem to be trying to give everything a "job" and make it "standard issue".</p><p></p><p>The old Death Knight is a Villain because it's very similar to a Hero: it is capable of handling itself in multiple situations. It has a number of different powers that, while they may not seem to follow a standard rationale, give it flexibility and "tricks up its sleeve". It is magic resistant, reflects spells, causes fear, gates in helpers, creates an ice wall, casts symbol and casts fireball. It usually rides a Nightmare. The point is, it doesn't have a "job" per se. It's good at practically everything: you can't reliably use spells against it, it's tough in melee, it can keep you at a distance, it can fry you, it can bring buddies, it can fly away on its hellhorse. There are only a few of these dudes (tragically, they are fallen paladins) but they are tough... the equal of any hero, or even most parties of heroes.</p><p></p><p>The "new guy" appears basically to be a Tank or melee monster. He has gone from a tragic creature of surprising and terrible capacities to a mere sword-lich. Why? Because everybody is supposed to have a "job", and <s>Human Resources</s> the DM has to know where to put him. If he could melee and cast fireball we'd have to circular file his resume because he'd obviously be "overqualified".</p><p></p><p>I see it going the same way with most things. They've already discussed "brutes", etc. I'm guessing you'll see things like "Orc Brute", "Orc Swiftrunner", "Orc Archer", etc.; because we certainly can no longer imagine a member of a primitive society who is reasonably self-sufficient and capable of doing more than one thing. Even tribal orcs will have an absolute division of labor: you don't send a Mail Room Orc to do a Customer Service Orc's job.</p><p></p><p>It's just a common cultural... metaphor? Submetaphor? I don't know the word for it. But I see it in a lot of things: standard point buys for characters, for example. Lots of people want to have the "standard issue" character which has a "default array" of stats, non-random hit points, 0% deviation from standard wealth-by-level guidelines, and which conforms to one of a set of collectively-determined "builds" in order to optimally specialize in a task. The fantasy version of an "empty suit", in my opinion. Doesn't matter if the suit is linen or mail.</p><p></p><p>The original Death Knight interests me precisely because it is a bit unconventional and unpredictable. It's a creation of dark magics, so it has ended up imbued with a fire ability (fireball) and an ice ability (wall thereof). That exercises my imagination because it makes me <strong>work for it</strong>. I can stretch my brain to think of how to use this guy, to think of why he is the way he is, to think of all the weird different stuff he could do. The "new guy", on the other hand, is entirely predictable. Skeleton in armor with a big sword? Let me guess: he hits people with his sword all the time? Got it... get in the Tank queue, skeletor. I'll call you when my Encounter Design Equation calls for a Sword15.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Korgoth, post: 3811496, member: 49613"] What I mean is, they seem to be trying to give everything a "job" and make it "standard issue". The old Death Knight is a Villain because it's very similar to a Hero: it is capable of handling itself in multiple situations. It has a number of different powers that, while they may not seem to follow a standard rationale, give it flexibility and "tricks up its sleeve". It is magic resistant, reflects spells, causes fear, gates in helpers, creates an ice wall, casts symbol and casts fireball. It usually rides a Nightmare. The point is, it doesn't have a "job" per se. It's good at practically everything: you can't reliably use spells against it, it's tough in melee, it can keep you at a distance, it can fry you, it can bring buddies, it can fly away on its hellhorse. There are only a few of these dudes (tragically, they are fallen paladins) but they are tough... the equal of any hero, or even most parties of heroes. The "new guy" appears basically to be a Tank or melee monster. He has gone from a tragic creature of surprising and terrible capacities to a mere sword-lich. Why? Because everybody is supposed to have a "job", and [s]Human Resources[/s] the DM has to know where to put him. If he could melee and cast fireball we'd have to circular file his resume because he'd obviously be "overqualified". I see it going the same way with most things. They've already discussed "brutes", etc. I'm guessing you'll see things like "Orc Brute", "Orc Swiftrunner", "Orc Archer", etc.; because we certainly can no longer imagine a member of a primitive society who is reasonably self-sufficient and capable of doing more than one thing. Even tribal orcs will have an absolute division of labor: you don't send a Mail Room Orc to do a Customer Service Orc's job. It's just a common cultural... metaphor? Submetaphor? I don't know the word for it. But I see it in a lot of things: standard point buys for characters, for example. Lots of people want to have the "standard issue" character which has a "default array" of stats, non-random hit points, 0% deviation from standard wealth-by-level guidelines, and which conforms to one of a set of collectively-determined "builds" in order to optimally specialize in a task. The fantasy version of an "empty suit", in my opinion. Doesn't matter if the suit is linen or mail. The original Death Knight interests me precisely because it is a bit unconventional and unpredictable. It's a creation of dark magics, so it has ended up imbued with a fire ability (fireball) and an ice ability (wall thereof). That exercises my imagination because it makes me [b]work for it[/b]. I can stretch my brain to think of how to use this guy, to think of why he is the way he is, to think of all the weird different stuff he could do. The "new guy", on the other hand, is entirely predictable. Skeleton in armor with a big sword? Let me guess: he hits people with his sword all the time? Got it... get in the Tank queue, skeletor. I'll call you when my Encounter Design Equation calls for a Sword15. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Ecology of the Deathknight up
Top