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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Obryn" data-source="post: 5983725" data-attributes="member: 11821">And that issue is?  I mean, seriously.  There's a major echo chamber phenomenon in RPG forums.  "People making the same argument for 4 years" means nothing other than "people who are making that argument think they're right, and have not changed their minds in the message board echo chambers."  Duration of argument gives zero weight to the actual content of an argument.People have been arguing for a flat earth for centuries, but their arguments don't magically gain weight because they still believe it.If you weren't interested in talking about the core rules, then why did you bring up the core rules?  I get that you're trying to shift the goalposts to a more favorable position by bringing in stuff like the entire product line, Dummies books, telepathic messages from the designers, etc., but count me out.Yes, clearly you can safely say that D&D players want different things out of their games.  Obviously.  These differences are vast - and that's okay.  But really - social conflict resolution is one of those near-universals.  Bring in Burning Wheel style social resolution as a default, and you'll lose more than 4e ever did.Now - again - the issue comes in when you take the group out of the Game + Group equation.And really, that about ends my interest in this discussion.  Sorry to duck out like this, but I'm 4 years older than I was in 2008 with two more children, and this little walk down memory lane is providing me with zero fresh insights or arguments. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  I am sure you probably feel similarly.  So, quick digital handshake - I'm done.-O</blockquote>

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