Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Edition Changes and Brand Identity: Remembering New Coke
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Snarf Zagyg" data-source="post: 9191637" data-attributes="member: 7023840"><p>So to briefly address this, and to somewhat move back on to topic ... as much as I enjoy discussing old beverages and have been disappointed that no one has mentioned Crystal Pepsi.</p><p></p><p>I want to make sure that this isn't construed as discussing prior edition changes. I think that it would be both reductive and too simple (not to mention edition war-y) to say that any particular edition change did or did not resemble this.</p><p></p><p>Instead, I am more interested in the way that this is an instructive example in terms of what it means to design for a brand. We have a lot of good conversations about proposed changes to D&D. What many people don't fully understand, and what I think WoTC continually grapples with, is the extent to which they can make changes. Designing for a brand is, in many ways, a gilded cage. It is never sufficient for someone to propose a change that makes the game "better." The change always has to be something that is not only better, but also consistent with the brand identity. </p><p></p><p>That's why, for example, when discussing aspects of the "legacy inclusions" of D&D, changes tend to be slow and deliberate. Take alignment, for example. The overall trend in D&D has been to move away from alignment. In 5e, alignment has been almost completely decoupled from all mechanics. We're now seeing alignment largely decoupled from monster descriptions. And yet, it has been difficult to jettison alignment completely from the game- and this isn't about the merits (or lack thereof) of alignment. It's about the strong associations and pop culture references and years of silly memes (what alignment is Batman???!!) that have built up around alignment and D&D.</p><p></p><p>Overall, I think that people tend to view D&D design in a vacuum; as I wrote above, there is the belief that you can literally slap any game with the name "D&D" and it would sell just the same. But that's not it at all. It's the other way around. D&D is a brand which does provide this massive inherent advantage, but it also is a huge constraint on design. In making "D&D," you are necessarily limited in terms of what you can change.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Snarf Zagyg, post: 9191637, member: 7023840"] So to briefly address this, and to somewhat move back on to topic ... as much as I enjoy discussing old beverages and have been disappointed that no one has mentioned Crystal Pepsi. I want to make sure that this isn't construed as discussing prior edition changes. I think that it would be both reductive and too simple (not to mention edition war-y) to say that any particular edition change did or did not resemble this. Instead, I am more interested in the way that this is an instructive example in terms of what it means to design for a brand. We have a lot of good conversations about proposed changes to D&D. What many people don't fully understand, and what I think WoTC continually grapples with, is the extent to which they can make changes. Designing for a brand is, in many ways, a gilded cage. It is never sufficient for someone to propose a change that makes the game "better." The change always has to be something that is not only better, but also consistent with the brand identity. That's why, for example, when discussing aspects of the "legacy inclusions" of D&D, changes tend to be slow and deliberate. Take alignment, for example. The overall trend in D&D has been to move away from alignment. In 5e, alignment has been almost completely decoupled from all mechanics. We're now seeing alignment largely decoupled from monster descriptions. And yet, it has been difficult to jettison alignment completely from the game- and this isn't about the merits (or lack thereof) of alignment. It's about the strong associations and pop culture references and years of silly memes (what alignment is Batman???!!) that have built up around alignment and D&D. Overall, I think that people tend to view D&D design in a vacuum; as I wrote above, there is the belief that you can literally slap any game with the name "D&D" and it would sell just the same. But that's not it at all. It's the other way around. D&D is a brand which does provide this massive inherent advantage, but it also is a huge constraint on design. In making "D&D," you are necessarily limited in terms of what you can change. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Edition Changes and Brand Identity: Remembering New Coke
Top