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Message: <blockquote data-quote="UngainlyTitan" data-source="post: 5425401" data-attributes="member: 28487">It ani't that simple and it is definitely no fact, it is your opinion. Now I cannot speak for 1E or 2e, I never owned the rulebooks, I just rolled the dice my DM told me to role. I just had a quick look at the Basic Red Box rule books, the whole players handbook is 64 pages. There is 8 pages of games concepts explained via an adventure narrative, followed by 5 or so pages on the character. There is a page on town business and a solo adventure that goes from page 14 to page 22. Page 23 to 47 is character classes and a couple pages of charts, sample character sheets, sample characters and a sheet of graph paper. Page 48 to 52 is how to create a character and the remaining pages are about mappers, callers, order of march, alignement, dividing treasdure, combat encounters, hirelings and a glossery and 2 pages of ads. The DM book has 2 pages of introduction, 9 of sample adventure and the reat monsters, treasure and charts.Aside from the couple of paragraphs on ability checks and the retainer ruls there is nothing in the Basic books I would call non combat rules. Now the 3.0 phb 286 pages including glossery and credits and the 4e phb1 317 pages so we are clearly is completely different territory in terms of rules complexity. interestingly the combat chapters are about the same length on both.</blockquote>