Effect-based 4e?

[NaturalZero]

There isn't a character in any of the games i play in or run that isn't reflavored all over the place. In fact, my group is at the point where someone comes up with a concept and the DM asks "well, what mechanics are you reskinning to do that?" Even something as straight forward like a warforged barbarian is often something mechanically different, like a dwarf fighter or genasi ranger.

This would all be much easier if the whole system was generally effect-based. Don't worry about reskinning your weapon as what you really want...build your custom attack features yourself! Arcane power source? Only if you can't come up with something more original to flavor all your powers. Effect-based design seems like it would be more liberating than being pressured into the pre-made fluff.

I'm considering trying to make an effect-based 4e conversion myself, with more general classes (defender, striker, controller, leader) and generally flavorless mechanics (build an "attack die" instead of a weapon). Has anyone else attempted this kind of conversion?

 

[Andor]

Why bother? It sounds like you already have what you want. Or you could play Fantasy Hero.

No snark intended, I don't see what you get out of your effort, given how easy going your GM seems to be.

 

[ggroy]

I'm considering trying to make an effect-based 4e conversion myself, with more general classes (defender, striker, controller, leader) and generally flavorless mechanics (build an "attack die" instead of a weapon). Has anyone else attempted this kind of conversion?

I've tried it largely to see all the possible permutations in the combat mechanics, and without any classes. It's actually quite simple.

Adding in classes just restricts the types of combat mechanics.

 

[RangerWickett]

I'm working on that now, actually. I spent a lot of time on similar ideas in 3e, working with Cyberzombie and others on the Elements of Magic rules and revisions thereof. I'm trying to come up with a flexible system that takes advantage of the balanced math of 4e while also giving people a variety of options in play, without slowing down the game.

It's not easy.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

This would all be much easier if the whole system was generally effect-based. Don't worry about reskinning your weapon as what you really want...build your custom attack features yourself! Arcane power source? Only if you can't come up with something more original to flavor all your powers. Effect-based design seems like it would be more liberating than being pressured into the pre-made fluff.

the problem is that sounds like Mutants and Masterminds (mind you I like and play M&M) and too many people have problem doing this reskining...why force players to do that instead of just giving a defualt...

 

[Rechan]

Because that would only have exacerbated "It's not D&D" "It reads terrible" and "Every character looks the same". If you're going to ditch the classes, might as well ditch Hit Points and the six attributes and come up with a much smoother approach.

 

[Oni]

Well I've said before that I'd really like to see D&D go in more effects based direction, so I dig the idea.

Making 4e specifically effects based would give you an interesting creature considering the nature of 4e combat, what with all that sliding and pushing and pulling.

I would think that building attacks would be a relatively easy thing to build other than figuring out good cost for the different effects. At wills get so many points, encounters more points, and dailies the most with increasing level being a defect.

Utilities and non attack powers/class abilities are where it would start getting really hard I think.

 

[NaturalZero]

Why bother? It sounds like you already have what you want. Or you could play Fantasy Hero.

No snark intended, I don't see what you get out of your effort, given how easy going your GM seems to be.

There's a lot you can do with just reflavoring, but part of the issue is that the designers compartmentalize mechanics based on flavor (classes, races, etc...) when there could easily be crossover and recombination without breaking the game. When you start going down that road, however, you have to start tweaking some of the basics of the game's underpinnings.

I've tried it largely to see all the possible permutations in the combat mechanics, and without any classes. It's actually quite simple.

Adding in classes just restricts the types of combat mechanics.

I like the idea of roles as general class templates because having abilities compartmentalized makes it easier to guarantee that any given PC will be competent at some aspect of tactical combat. It seems like dropping classes and/or roles altogether makes balance much harder to achieve.

BTW, ive considered adding in "Skill Roles" in addition to the combat roles in an attempt to flesh out the out-of-combat aspect of characters. I could see Rituals getting rolled into these roles but im really fuzzy on exactly how to make them work for varied types of character concepts.

the problem is that sounds like Mutants and Masterminds (mind you I like and play M&M) and too many people have problem doing this reskining...why force players to do that instead of just giving a defualt...

<shrug> I guess i don't have an issue forcing people to come up with concepts. Maybe its just me wanted to have a system that reflects my personal playstyle (DIY fluff).

Because that would only have exacerbated "It's not D&D" "It reads terrible" and "Every character looks the same". If you're going to ditch the classes, might as well ditch Hit Points and the six attributes and come up with a much smoother approach.

Speaking of smoother approach, im definitely ditching the "3-18" ability scores. Whats the point? The only thing that matters is the actual bonus. Everyone is going to have Str/Con/Int/Dex/Cha/Wis that starts out at 0-5 and increases as you level. The score is the bonus in this system.

 

[ggroy]

I like the idea of roles as general class templates because having abilities compartmentalized makes it easier to guarantee that any given PC will be competent at some aspect of tactical combat. It seems like dropping classes and/or roles altogether makes balance much harder to achieve.

A point buy system and/or class templates makes it easier to balance.

It prevents combinations such a level 1 non-human character with natural armor, "rage" points, wearing plate armor, fighting using two swords, and casting a shield type spell at the same time.