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Effects - do they require a successful hit to work?
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<blockquote data-quote="Bodhiwolff" data-source="post: 4640594" data-attributes="member: 71196"><p>We've been having this same discussion about "Stinking Cloud".</p><p> </p><p><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><p style="text-align: left">Stinking Cloud </p><p></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff">Wizard Attack 5</span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="color: #ffffff"></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><em><span style="font-family: 'MentorStd-Italic'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorStd-Italic'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left">You call forth a thick cloud of bilious yellow vapors. The foul</p></span></span></span></span></em></p><p style="text-align: left"><em><span style="font-family: 'MentorStd-Italic'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorStd-Italic'"><span style="font-size: 9px">fumes overwhelm any creature within.</p><p></span></span></span></span></em><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left">Daily </p><p></span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'ZapfDingbats'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'ZapfDingbats'"><span style="font-size: 9px">✦ </span></span></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Arcane, Implement, Poison, Zone</span></span></span></span></strong></p> <p style="text-align: left"><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Standard Action Area </span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">burst 2 within 20 squares</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left">Target: </p><p></span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Each creature in burst</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left">Attack: </p><p></span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Intelligence vs. Fortitude</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left">Hit: </p><p></span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">1d10 + Intelligence modifier poison damage.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left">Effect: </p><p></span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"></p><p></span><p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">The burst creates a zone of poisonous vapor that</span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">blocks line of sight until the end of your next turn. Creatures</span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">that enter the zone or start their turns there take 1d10 +</span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Intelligence modifier poison damage. As a move action, you</span></span></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">can move the zone up to 6 squares.</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span><strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd-Bold'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Sustain Minor: </span></span></span></span></strong><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">The zone persists.</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">So, it has a burst attack to hit the initial targets, Int. vs. Fort, to do 1d10+INT damage.</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">However, the lingering effect of the cloud can do similar damage to creatrures who (a) enter the zone, or (b) start in the zone.</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">The effect listing comes after the hit listing, so it seems, if one is reading strictly, that you need to have the attack hit something in order for the cloud to activate.</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">However, after much back-and-forth we've decided that it probably doesn't work that way. The immediate damage on a "hit" reflects whether somebody is struck when the spell is first cast (perhaps they breathe in just at that moment, and thus it is a test vs. fortitude).</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">But it seems possible to simply cast the spell, without a target creature, in order to create the cloud and have it around for later in the encounter (assuming that you spend the minor action to always sustain it).</span></span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px">Thoughts?</span></span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"><span style="font-family: 'MentorSansStd'"><span style="font-size: 9px"></span></span></span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Bodhiwolff, post: 4640594, member: 71196"] We've been having this same discussion about "Stinking Cloud". [B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=3][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=3][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=3][COLOR=#ffffff][LEFT]Stinking Cloud [/LEFT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=3][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=3][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=3][COLOR=#ffffff][LEFT][/left][/COLOR][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/COLOR][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/COLOR][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][COLOR=#ffffff]Wizard Attack 5[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][COLOR=#ffffff][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][COLOR=#ffffff] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][I][FONT=MentorStd-Italic][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorStd-Italic][SIZE=1][LEFT]You call forth a thick cloud of bilious yellow vapors. The foul fumes overwhelm any creature within.[/LEFT] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][FONT=MentorStd-Italic][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorStd-Italic][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT]Daily [/LEFT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=ZapfDingbats][SIZE=1][FONT=ZapfDingbats][SIZE=1]✦ [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1]Arcane, Implement, Poison, Zone Standard Action Area [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]burst 2 within 20 squares[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT]Target: [/LEFT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]Each creature in burst[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT]Attack: [/LEFT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]Intelligence vs. Fortitude[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT]Hit: [/LEFT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]1d10 + Intelligence modifier poison damage.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT]Effect: [/LEFT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][/left][/SIZE][LEFT][/left][/FONT][LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]The burst creates a zone of poisonous vapor that blocks line of sight until the end of your next turn. Creatures that enter the zone or start their turns there take 1d10 + Intelligence modifier poison damage. As a move action, you can move the zone up to 6 squares.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/LEFT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1]Sustain Minor: [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd-Bold][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]The zone persists.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]So, it has a burst attack to hit the initial targets, Int. vs. Fort, to do 1d10+INT damage.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]However, the lingering effect of the cloud can do similar damage to creatrures who (a) enter the zone, or (b) start in the zone.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]The effect listing comes after the hit listing, so it seems, if one is reading strictly, that you need to have the attack hit something in order for the cloud to activate.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]However, after much back-and-forth we've decided that it probably doesn't work that way. The immediate damage on a "hit" reflects whether somebody is struck when the spell is first cast (perhaps they breathe in just at that moment, and thus it is a test vs. fortitude).[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]But it seems possible to simply cast the spell, without a target creature, in order to create the cloud and have it around for later in the encounter (assuming that you spend the minor action to always sustain it).[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1][FONT=MentorSansStd][SIZE=1]Thoughts? [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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