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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9711149" data-attributes="member: 93670">The questions were far more important than the class selections and even those make some very dubious claims while justifiably pointing fingers at the players. That list does reveal some stuff though.The bard being a "full support build" and really only having a healing type ability as it's noteworthy contribution to the party suggests that it's a "healer" rather than anything approaching a "<a href="https://youtu.be/TTBpVGeJLzI?si=nfzxRR7cN7dK7O_n" target="_blank">support build</a>" there is a gigantic difference between supporting the party in the form of force multiplication and simply healing them.  I've seen a lot of players start with 5e and think literally anything other than for us "support" and that all forms of "support" are interchangeable.[Insert gus fring meme]Going beyond that nothing about rapier user screams "full support build" either.  A support build should be focused on things like force multiplication and things they can safely contribute after doing so.  The questions in my previous post would have added a lot of clarity.The inclusion of a fighter absolutely <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="💯" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f4af.png" title="Hundred points    :100:" data-shortname=":100:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />percent points one of a few different fingers at the players.  Either the fighter is more of a crunchy tank type than the ranger and nobody proactively discussed/stuck to a plan that would put the fighter out front and center with support that somehow makes them a better target (ie position terrain changes etc) than the squishier members or the fighter was yet another dpr in a dpr heavy party that lacks a solid tank and has a healer with a rapier dressed up as a "full support build".  The questions in my previous post would have added a lot of clarity.I'm not familiar enough with the dc20 and the mechanist to know what kind of "support build" spell/ability options it has, but the d&d version has always had top tier support options like slow & web but none of them were mentioned.  Going beyond that though... "Utility" usually means exploration and sometimes social pillar rather than support in combat.  Once again the questions in my previous post would have added a lot of clarity.Sometimes ice spells have limited support like damage spells that carry a minor movement debuff or area denial wall spells, but at such low levels it's probably yet another damage build simply by not having a deep enough chest of spells and all of the spells you mentioned as the sorcerer's "favorites" tend to rank highly on the damage build scale.Absent answers to any of the questions from my last post I'm going to guess that there is some level of a thing I've seen many 5e groups do.  The GM potentially knows that the party is hyper focused on damage, can't fill their own capability gaps, and is not even working together in ways that might mitigate those gaps.  They might have even tried to bring up things they noticed that the party is not but could or should be doing but such suggestions were ignored in favor of players doubling down on dpr and leveraging the social contract against combats they themselves made impossible as a self fulfilling prophecy that must see no deviation</blockquote>

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