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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 3850045" data-attributes="member: 2205">1)  You picked the least interesting part of my post(s) to respond to and ignored the rest.  Bravo.   :\ 2)  Clearly you think they're a load of BS since you can't be bothered to use the correct ones.  Hence your inability to communicate clearly since you are stubbornly refusing to use them in even a general way that approximates their commonly accepted definitions.3)  Calling S&S a "sub-sub-subcategory of fantasy" is patently absurd.  S&S and high fantasy are arguably the two largest, broadest categories in the genre, not esoteric minutia.4)  Again, "But I think the distinction and unique particulars of S&S specifically are pretty relevent to the discussion. I agree that D&D is more S&S with an overlay of high fantasy, but what you're really saying---in so many words, if I can be so bold as to attempt to paraphrase for you---is that you want to minimize the actual S&S elements in D&D and go for something more like high fantasy. The unique D&Disms are usually the elements that most strongly correllate D&D to the S&S subgenre." and "But I agree; D&D specifically doesn't limit itself to imitating one fantasy subgenre. Which is why I guess I'm missing the point or purpose of rounser's complaint. What good does more generic do you, anyway? D&D may not necessarily be generic, but it certainly is extremely broad, which gives you almost all of the same advantages. True, it's littered with D&Disms, but there so much freakin' material to work with that you can turn D&D into almost whatever you want with a minimum of work.Just for laughs, I've been "Ray Winningering" up a setting that's specifically designed around the premise that magic doesn't exist at all and in its place we have psionics. Since that changes the feel so significantly, I decided that the standard elves, dwarves, halflings, etc. racial array doesn't feel right either. But I can do all this with stuff that's already in print easily. D&D is so broad that complaining about D&Disms seems futile. Rather, if you don't like them, just don't use them. The idea that, "well eladrins are now 'core' and it's harder to take them out" doesn't seem to hold much water. Like I said, I've been developing a campaign that gets rid of elves, dwarves, half-elves, halflings, gnomes, paladins, wizards, druids, etc. Literally 75% of the PHB is gone. I don't understand the notion that it's "hard" to do so.The D&Disms that bother me more and are harder to get out are system, not flavor issues. Hit points and levels, for example."</blockquote>

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