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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 3786120" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>Complete bull.</p><p></p><p>You obviously know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of the history of Warhammer, making such a boldly idiotic claim.</p><p></p><p>Warhammer is based FAR MORE on Tolkien and Moorcock DIRECTLY than on D&D.</p><p></p><p>It has ALMOST NO D&D elements.</p><p></p><p>Cosmology? Completely unlike D&D, very similar to Moorcock.</p><p>Magic? Completely unlike D&D, or really anything else.</p><p>Elves? Like Tolkien's, NOT like D&D's.</p><p>Halfling? Like Tolkien's, NOTHING from D&D.</p><p>Dwarves? Like Tolkien's NO D&D influence measurable.</p><p>Empire Humans? Like Moorcock's Von Bek. No D&D influence.</p><p>Chaos Humans? Like Moorcock's Chaos. No D&D influence.</p><p>Bretonnian Humans? Like Arthurian legends. No D&D influence.</p><p>Chaos Monsters? Like Moorcock and some S&S writers. No D&D influence.</p><p>Dragons? Like classic Dragons. No D&D colour BS.</p><p>Dark Elves? Like Moorcock's Melniboneans fused with elements of Tolkien's Elves. Only possible D&D influence is "tough females", and that's hard to prove.</p><p>Orcs? Clearly based on Tolkien's conception, no D&D influence, they're huge green brave brutes who don't fear sunlight, not the grey-skinned, originally-pig-snouted things from D&D - indeed, D&D's Orcs have been influenced by Warhammers, just look at the face of a 3E Orc compared to 1E and 2E Orcs.</p><p></p><p>Do I seriously need to go on? D&D is one of the SMALLEST influences on Warhammer. About the only place it's influence is clearly evident is in the Magic Items of the late-80s and early-90s Warhammer, and even then that's just because I'm assuming Frostblade and Flamebrand swords are D&D inventions.</p><p></p><p>So where is the D&D influence, Mac? You wanna make that sort of significant claim, you back it up with facts, or you admit that you're just speaking out of ignorance. The answer is, in the end, that the D&D influence simply IS NOT there.</p><p></p><p>Seriously. I'm not kidding about this. Don't try and re-write history to make D&D the star, it's the nerd equivalent of Revisionist Afrocentrism. It is not the only source of all fantasy inspiration, much as you might wish it was. It is MOST DEFINATELY NOT the primary source of Warhammer inspiration.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 3786120, member: 18"] Complete bull. You obviously know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING of the history of Warhammer, making such a boldly idiotic claim. Warhammer is based FAR MORE on Tolkien and Moorcock DIRECTLY than on D&D. It has ALMOST NO D&D elements. Cosmology? Completely unlike D&D, very similar to Moorcock. Magic? Completely unlike D&D, or really anything else. Elves? Like Tolkien's, NOT like D&D's. Halfling? Like Tolkien's, NOTHING from D&D. Dwarves? Like Tolkien's NO D&D influence measurable. Empire Humans? Like Moorcock's Von Bek. No D&D influence. Chaos Humans? Like Moorcock's Chaos. No D&D influence. Bretonnian Humans? Like Arthurian legends. No D&D influence. Chaos Monsters? Like Moorcock and some S&S writers. No D&D influence. Dragons? Like classic Dragons. No D&D colour BS. Dark Elves? Like Moorcock's Melniboneans fused with elements of Tolkien's Elves. Only possible D&D influence is "tough females", and that's hard to prove. Orcs? Clearly based on Tolkien's conception, no D&D influence, they're huge green brave brutes who don't fear sunlight, not the grey-skinned, originally-pig-snouted things from D&D - indeed, D&D's Orcs have been influenced by Warhammers, just look at the face of a 3E Orc compared to 1E and 2E Orcs. Do I seriously need to go on? D&D is one of the SMALLEST influences on Warhammer. About the only place it's influence is clearly evident is in the Magic Items of the late-80s and early-90s Warhammer, and even then that's just because I'm assuming Frostblade and Flamebrand swords are D&D inventions. So where is the D&D influence, Mac? You wanna make that sort of significant claim, you back it up with facts, or you admit that you're just speaking out of ignorance. The answer is, in the end, that the D&D influence simply IS NOT there. Seriously. I'm not kidding about this. Don't try and re-write history to make D&D the star, it's the nerd equivalent of Revisionist Afrocentrism. It is not the only source of all fantasy inspiration, much as you might wish it was. It is MOST DEFINATELY NOT the primary source of Warhammer inspiration. [/QUOTE]
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