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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1772508" data-attributes="member: 5777">::shrugs:: you talked it up, I talked it down. I made sure to put up its costs while you were extolling its virtues. Whatever you like of course, but saying that it is not objective is useless. You presented one side and I took devils advocate for the other.In my first post I already compared useing the halflings ability (which is an always on, though lesser, same type bonus).For the most part the abilities are pretty underwhelming though. At lower levels they can help, as levels increase though needing that swift action (as it does take away a swift action) will happen more and more often. Also, as I previously mentioned, there are many other powers that the psionic character may want to get which help over a good range of circumstances and work much better.So, it uses up the racial abilities (as in, you can get some other races abilities) and it costs pp (although 2 are given by the race itself that is a pretty low number) and it costs an action (which grows in importance as levels increase, which means that as one goes up in levels the racial abilities tend to be used less and less, making them effectively worth less and less, hence the underwhelming).So, if one has no pp to spare (pp are a very valuable commodity, burning a few here and there will wind up cutting pretty deeply into how many powers can be used in a day. Such as with the other thread about psionic damage compared with arcane, after just a few uses of this ability, say 2 or 3 per battle, the damage that the psion does goes down) then the elan has the racial ability of '-2 cha' and 'abberation'.-2 cha is obviously bad. Some builds can get around it, but then some builds can get around any stat. That does not change it from being bad.Abberation type is nice and all, but it also makes one immune to 'beneficial' spells/effects that are based on being humanoid as well. There is a great deal of abberation hate spells and effects in Eberron in case you were wondering though.Other than 2 pp, 2 immediate actions and needing to be an elan?But then, that is only twice. The halfling and dwarfs abilities are on all day long, conscious or not. If one wanted to instead not have to eat today then they only get one save boost. If they want to reduce damage by 2 or 4 then they might not even get a save bonus at all today. I doubt that for a nonpsionic anyone would call this race overpowered.If one is a psionic class though (gains pp rather) then the elan can burn class abilities to make the race actually do something. This is more of a synergy than anything else. Saying that the race is overpowered because of it doesnt make a lot of sense, one could just as easily say that the class is overpowered because of it, both are nonsense.However, looking at a class that gains pp and useing it with the elan means simply that one is burning class abilities to make the racial abilities work. Other races dont have that penalty.Burning a pp plus an immediate action to gain a +4 bonus to saves is all right, but not exactly incredible. It still has a cost and that cost tends to come right out of the pp one would be useing for other things. I say it isnt incredible becuase, generally speaking, the dwarf version is better and the halflings version is equivalent.So, a psion already has the potential to blow through his points incredibly fast. He really has to take care to spread out. Now, with this race, he has to be even more careful. Not only do all of his class abilities take pp but so do his racial abilities. The drain is getting very high now.That is why I said they were fine as is. The abilities are nice but they are not without cost, and that cost can be very, very high indeed.If someone wants to play an elan fighter and burn feats to gain pp just to use his racial abilities then more power to him. I highly doubt it will even be a bump on the radar for 'overpowered'. He would still be better off being a dwarf if he was after the save bonus.Of course, if you were some other race then that other race has other benefits which may have kept you alive also, or saved you in some other way. Opportunity cost.Note, if the character had been a halfling then maybe that attack would have missed anyway. The halfling didnt have to pay any pp, didnt have to use an action, didnt have to give anything up (or have left over, too bad for you if you already used your immediate action or swift action this round), and is still alive also.When it comes down to it, even the gnomes, 'speak with small burrowing creatures' ability might save your life, that doesnt make it overpowered.No, I was talking about the  multitude of other threads about the elan actually. James has quite a bit of experience with them as well. He had two in the same party, one almost never used any of his abilities over the course of several levels, the other used them all the time. The first mainly played the regular mage type, the second always ran into combat. The first was actually able to contribute more, the second was always running out of pp.Tradeoffs.Then, as the dwarf is core, as I said in the first post they are fine as is. Which part of the 'spread' they are on is irrelevant as it is too compaign dependant and mostly up to personal taste (I would rather have an always active lesser bonus than a situational, maybe get to use it, slightly higher bonus)</blockquote>

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