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Message: <blockquote data-quote="robertliguori" data-source="post: 3937141" data-attributes="member: 47776">Except...here's the thing; Elder Evils leave signs of their existence.  A character that can pull a DC 45 Knowledge check knows "Oh, look.  Something's coming to eat the world."  The kinds of characters that can make these checks are also the characters that can knock moons out of the sky with one hand or can throw out a Maximized Meteor Swarm followed by a Quickened Widened Transmute Rock to Lava and then laugh as your component worms go sizzle.The problem with the idea of the elder evils is that horror is, in many cases, antithetical to proper military tactics.  Elder Evils simply cannot be used properly in a universe with high-level characters; the very attributes that make level 6 and under characters fear them make the level 16s and over able to defeat them.  Having dark, grandiose goals and a global reach which can't be escaped is scary.  It also puts you on the hit list of every single entity that wants there to be a universe.  Being a terrible mockery of a living, familiar form is scary.  But familiar forms weren't just picked out of a hat; they are familiar because they work well, and messing with them means that you are now inefficient compared to a similar entity that focuses on power over fear.  The Elder Evils are supposed to defy reality in new and horrible ways, but in D&D, reality is defied on a daily basis.  The Elder Evils are supposed to be unknowable, unfightable horrors.  For this to work, they need to be creatures of pure fiat, because if they have stats, they can be known, and they can be fought.</blockquote>

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