Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Elder Scrolls : Skyrim
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Kzach" data-source="post: 5775237" data-attributes="member: 56189"><p>The lack of peripheral vision is a big thing too. I think maybe that's one of my weaknesses with real-time combat sims because I have weak frontal vision and rely a lot on peripheral vision for my awareness of my environment so when faced with just one view in a game, I barely know which way is up.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't deny that, I just use it as a reason to not like the game <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Really? 'cause so far I've only ever experienced having one route to go through most encounter areas. Sure, from one map area to the next you can go all over the place (although even then there are loads of invisible walls), but it's no more sandbox than Fallout is and given the hype, that's what I expected.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think you underestimate the effect of marketing on people's (and your own) psyche. Done well and you can essentially TELL people your product is awesome and they'll do the marketing for you. Doesn't always work because it's not always done well. People rarely, genuinely, think for themselves or form their own opinions based on fact and evidence; it's easier just to borrow someone else's and claim it's an original thought.</p><p></p><p>Now, I'm not saying you're a sheeple or that you didn't formulate a genuine, objective opinion of the product, mainly because that would get me banned, but try this as an experiment: approach the game as if you'd never heard anything about it and you had simply come along to a console and picked up a controller and started playing. Take away all your excitement and interest and prefabricated knowledge of the game and play it with a clean slate and try to objectively formulate an opinion based on your 'new' experiences.</p><p></p><p>It's a challenge, to be sure, since there are things you just can't unlearn, but if you can manage it, you'll learn more about the game and yourself and the way the world operates and become more cynical, jaded, bitter and misanthropic: like me.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm glad you used Fallout as an example since they suffer much the same problems, probably because, as you pointed out, they use the same engine.</p><p></p><p>Try climbing a mountain.</p><p></p><p>In Fallout New Vegas, for instance, there are TONS of invisible walls that prevent you from going anywhere but where you're intended to go. Not many people run into them simply because not many people explore as extensively as others. There are also tons of graphical walls presented as mountains or boulders or blocked paths or numerous other things to fool you into believing 'that's how things are meant to be'.</p><p></p><p>This reminds me a lot of World of Warcraft. When it was first brought out, there were entire guilds of explorers who did little else but run around the world finding mountains to climb and forests to delve. And it resulted in them going to all these places where they weren't meant to be able to go. They found glitches in the Matrix that allowed them to see things like the original Ironforge, the airstrip, entire mountain tops without any graphics, forests that just ended in black space, etc. So what did Blizzard do? Put up invisible walls everywhere.</p><p></p><p>The games have the ILLUSION of being a sandbox because 90% of people don't explore very much and tend to follow roads and logical paths. Go off those paths and suddenly you find that the world is very much designed for you to go in one direction and not another. If you question this, then have a closer look at the fully detailed map overviews and you can SEE the designed lines and roadblocks.</p><p></p><p>Now, on the whole, I don't have a major problem with this but the fact is that the game was hyped/advertised not to have such blocks and to be extensively explorable. To people who don't challenge that assumption by pushing the boundaries, literally and figuratively, of the gaming environment, this may be true, but to those of us who do, it's just another broken promise.</p><p></p><p></p><p>No, actually the opposite.</p><p></p><p>A video game, IMO, should NOT try to approximate real life combat because inevitably they do it badly.</p><p></p><p>This is why I like games like Mass Effect or Fallout where you have stylised combat with a pause function. This makes it a GAME rather than an exercise in learning twitch responses and micro movements. This type of gaming is fine in combat oriented games like Call of Duty, but in a roleplaying sandbox game, it's a detraction because you have to be physically able, rather than just mentally.</p><p></p><p>I fully agree that it's a PEBKAC situation as mentioned earlier. I just disagree that I should have to learn an element of games that I avoid (ie. your Call of Duty's and the like) because I don't enjoy them, in order to play a genre of game that traditionally doesn't have such elements. Fallout, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, etc. all had some sort of turn-based or pausing element.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kzach, post: 5775237, member: 56189"] The lack of peripheral vision is a big thing too. I think maybe that's one of my weaknesses with real-time combat sims because I have weak frontal vision and rely a lot on peripheral vision for my awareness of my environment so when faced with just one view in a game, I barely know which way is up. I don't deny that, I just use it as a reason to not like the game :) Really? 'cause so far I've only ever experienced having one route to go through most encounter areas. Sure, from one map area to the next you can go all over the place (although even then there are loads of invisible walls), but it's no more sandbox than Fallout is and given the hype, that's what I expected. I think you underestimate the effect of marketing on people's (and your own) psyche. Done well and you can essentially TELL people your product is awesome and they'll do the marketing for you. Doesn't always work because it's not always done well. People rarely, genuinely, think for themselves or form their own opinions based on fact and evidence; it's easier just to borrow someone else's and claim it's an original thought. Now, I'm not saying you're a sheeple or that you didn't formulate a genuine, objective opinion of the product, mainly because that would get me banned, but try this as an experiment: approach the game as if you'd never heard anything about it and you had simply come along to a console and picked up a controller and started playing. Take away all your excitement and interest and prefabricated knowledge of the game and play it with a clean slate and try to objectively formulate an opinion based on your 'new' experiences. It's a challenge, to be sure, since there are things you just can't unlearn, but if you can manage it, you'll learn more about the game and yourself and the way the world operates and become more cynical, jaded, bitter and misanthropic: like me. I'm glad you used Fallout as an example since they suffer much the same problems, probably because, as you pointed out, they use the same engine. Try climbing a mountain. In Fallout New Vegas, for instance, there are TONS of invisible walls that prevent you from going anywhere but where you're intended to go. Not many people run into them simply because not many people explore as extensively as others. There are also tons of graphical walls presented as mountains or boulders or blocked paths or numerous other things to fool you into believing 'that's how things are meant to be'. This reminds me a lot of World of Warcraft. When it was first brought out, there were entire guilds of explorers who did little else but run around the world finding mountains to climb and forests to delve. And it resulted in them going to all these places where they weren't meant to be able to go. They found glitches in the Matrix that allowed them to see things like the original Ironforge, the airstrip, entire mountain tops without any graphics, forests that just ended in black space, etc. So what did Blizzard do? Put up invisible walls everywhere. The games have the ILLUSION of being a sandbox because 90% of people don't explore very much and tend to follow roads and logical paths. Go off those paths and suddenly you find that the world is very much designed for you to go in one direction and not another. If you question this, then have a closer look at the fully detailed map overviews and you can SEE the designed lines and roadblocks. Now, on the whole, I don't have a major problem with this but the fact is that the game was hyped/advertised not to have such blocks and to be extensively explorable. To people who don't challenge that assumption by pushing the boundaries, literally and figuratively, of the gaming environment, this may be true, but to those of us who do, it's just another broken promise. No, actually the opposite. A video game, IMO, should NOT try to approximate real life combat because inevitably they do it badly. This is why I like games like Mass Effect or Fallout where you have stylised combat with a pause function. This makes it a GAME rather than an exercise in learning twitch responses and micro movements. This type of gaming is fine in combat oriented games like Call of Duty, but in a roleplaying sandbox game, it's a detraction because you have to be physically able, rather than just mentally. I fully agree that it's a PEBKAC situation as mentioned earlier. I just disagree that I should have to learn an element of games that I avoid (ie. your Call of Duty's and the like) because I don't enjoy them, in order to play a genre of game that traditionally doesn't have such elements. Fallout, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, etc. all had some sort of turn-based or pausing element. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Elder Scrolls : Skyrim
Top