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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Nonlethal Force" data-source="post: 2777113" data-attributes="member: 35788">Same stats was assumed.  How else can a fair comparison be done?  That's why I prefer a ranged EK - A decent DEX and a decent INT benefit the wizard and the ranged EK nicely.  STR can become a dump stat if need be.EDIT:  Or .. a decent DEX and a decent CHA benefit a sorcerer and an EK nicely.  [I left that part out, and didn't want to be unfair to sorcerer builds.]I believe I already conceeded the "higher level spell" case - and I did it rather politely, I thought.  And I do also believe that I also said that if the focus was on spell selection that the straight up caster with full spellcasting progression was better.  I think I stated that rather politely as well.  I see no reason to argue with that.  But if "absolutely maximized offensive" casting is not the player's main goal - and there are plenty of alternatives to spellcasting that are not focused on "absolutely maximized offensive output" - the EK is still a valid choice.  I could build a very effective illusionist who convinces the enemy to surrender because I have a big friend (who may be an illusion to me) and not even risk the fight.  And I can do that just fine with the Practiced Spellcaster feat - just as well as any full wizard.  My point is that there are other ways to gain XP and other ways to build a character besides " absolutely maximized offensive" damage output.  My point is valid - no need to attack it.This I actually take exception to.  I have stated several valid options for building legitimate EKs who are not based on maximum spell damage as their character idea.  I have even conceeded that a straight spellcaster will always do better at damage causing spells because they have higher level spell.  But there is no reason to demean or devalue my assertion simply because your viewpoint only considers damaging spells.  I did not come here to be made to look stupid or to be demeaned.  I posted here because I like to encourage people to expand their mind beyond using spell selection only to encompas maximum damage output.  There are other ways to play besides "kill/kill/kill."  Tricking the enemy, bluffing the enemy, and even hog-tying the enemy are all valid possibilities - possibilities that an EK can accomplish quite nicely.  You can demean my post all you would like, but I simply do not appreciate it.  Do have a good day, however.</blockquote>

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