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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jemal" data-source="post: 6085657" data-attributes="member: 9026">There has been a change though.  There's no progression in 3e.  Increased Mass is SIMILAR, but I never thought it could apply to Create.  If I can apply it as a progression then I'd cede the point, but that response from kenson seems to be that he's against allowing toughness by thickness because of Progression.  He ends by basically saying "if you allow doubling thickness then don't allow progression."I was intending to Create mazes, houses, obstacles, bridges, a bunch of types of structures.  Except that's not how it works...  If we were to follow your ruling on volume and toughness, then the small dome could have walls that are paper thin and the big dome could be several feet thick without affecting the toughness, the only thing that would matter would be the overall volume of the dome.  Bigger objects with less toughness.Looking at a very simple example, and the basic way I'll be using it most often : a WALL.  Proportional Create 10 could create a wall 10 feet thick, 10 feet tall, and 50 feet wide.(Volume rank 9) with toughness 1.  OR it could create a wall 10 feet tall, 60 feet wide and only ONE foot thick (60 cubic feet, volume rank 6), and have toughness 4.So the second wall is the same height, 10 feet longer, and 1/10th as thick, but tougher.  That's what proportional does.OK Lets look at a few things.First off, dropping a created object causes damage. A fair bit of damage.  Objects without mass don't hurt when they fall on you.  Ipso Facto, created objects have non-trivial mass.  *Though admittedly it does base the damage off the objects toughness which makes less sense..*Now lets look at the three powers I quoted.  Stationary: It appears to me to be about keeping an object in the air, not about keeping it in one place.  It does mention that it resists being moved with a str score, which upon thinking further, IS better than just having that much mass, because mass doesn't resist, so that could be useful to me, but that's a different point.Movable: You can move your object with a move-object effect at your create rank.  This seems to imply to me that you would need a higher rank move object to move a bigger object.  If the object is essentially weightless, then this is just a cheap way of gaining Telekinesis (via a platform or grasping object) combined with your create.Tether: OK this one's just weird. You have a 'connection' that allows you to exert your strength on your created object... But this just raises questions.  What's the range?  Is it limitless (in which case its essentially an odd form of cheap telekinesis that uses your strength score instead);  Is it touch range, in which case it seems entirely pointless (if you can already move created objects with strength..);  Or does it have a specific range (In which case why is this not stated).On top of that, the book has a section on using created objects as cover.  If they could be just moved out of the way with minimal effort that would be entirely pointless.All of these things together cause me to believe that created objects have mass.I was just working under a basic assumption of mass = volume rank for simplicity.  Regardless of what you 'say' you've made, the power creates objects of the same density.  Otherwise I could create 1000 cubic feet of Osmium and crush superman. lol*edit: just for fun: that much osmium would weigh 640 metric tonnes and be worth over $30 billion US.</blockquote>

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