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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Falling Icicle" data-source="post: 6681498" data-attributes="member: 17077">No matter how "iconic" a spell is, an 8th level spell should always be better than a 3rd level spell. There shouldn't even be a contest. As for dealing necrotic damage, there's circle of death at 6th level for that, and that spell also puts horrid wilting to shame. Circle of death is also a terrible spell for its level, so for an 8th level spell to be below that very low bar is pathetic indeed.Besides, fireball isn't the amazing spell that some people think it is. Granted, at 5th level when you first get it, dealing an average of 28 damage to a large area is pretty powerful. But as levels go up and monster hp rapidly inflate, fireball quickly loses its luster. The measly 1d6/spell level scaling doesn't help. This is true of most blasting spells in general in 5e. They just don't keep pace with monster hp inflation, so they're really only viable at very low levels or for after you've already got a concentration effect going and you have nothing better to do.Meteor swarm is a notable exception, but that's only because it quite literally blows all other damaging spells out of the water. At 40d6 damage (avg. 140), it actually deals enough damage to be viable at its spell level. A 9th level fireball, by comparison, deals only 14d6 (avg. 49) damage. It doesn't even come close. Abi-Dalzim's horrid wilting is 8th level, just one level below meteor swarm. It should be very impressive, as most 8th level spells are. Compare it to sunburst, which deals a similar amount of damage but also blinds many creatures and doesn't require concentration to keep them blinded. Compare it to maze, which can take a monster out of a fight for a minimum of 1 round with no saving throw, and requires a DC 20 Int check to escape. A mediocre blast doesn't deserve to be an 8th level spell. If a spell is going to do nothing but damage at that level, it should do a lot.</blockquote>

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