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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Elementary Essentials: eliminating level bonuses & stacking.
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<blockquote data-quote="Kzach" data-source="post: 5659722" data-attributes="member: 56189"><p>Ok, I admit, my previous explanation was lame. I was being lazy. Now that I'm bored and looking for something to occupy me, I'll reply properly <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p>Stacking bonuses causes so many problems in 4e. I can't claim that my alternate rules fix them all as I haven't even begun to test them out. However, on casual evaluation, it seems to certainly combat the bulk of the problem in one simple fix.</p><p></p><p>Take one of the biggest problems with 4e: Twin Strike. You can stack so much damage onto each attack that it has become the centre of the DPR universe. The ability damage being taken out of that equation is next to meaningless. Now try to using it with my rules in play. It's still good, but it will never be the uber-damage beast that makes Orcus whimper and huddle in a corner that it is now.</p><p></p><p>Same goes for charging builds. If Surprising Charge doesn't stack with Vanguard Weapon and you can't add things like Takedown Strike, Backstab, and a host of static damage bonuses to it, suddenly it becomes... ok, cool even, but not the be-all-end-all of DPR builds.</p><p></p><p>Then there's all this nonsense of Expertise feats being required, NAD bonus feats and items being required, all just to keep up to a mathematical curve that was ill-conceived and considered from the very beginning of 4e. Do away with stacking and level-based increases and suddenly it all becomes irrelevant. You maintain a balanced system because the math essentially remains the same over 30 levels.</p><p></p><p>Then imagine how much easier it would be to both DM and play? Instead of adding 200 different sources of damage and hit bonuses, you now have just three (ability + class + highest outside source, whether it be item, power or feat-based). DC's for skill challenges remain the same over thirty levels. Building encounters becomes SOOOO much easier because damage is all at a 1st-level monster base (well, there are exceptions from monster powers but I never said the system was perfect as is).</p><p></p><p>And yet you really lose very little. At the end of the day, level-based anything is just running in place solely to keep up. I've long not seen the point in it. So what if I can swat a 1st-level solo as a 30th-level character? I find that unsatisfying and boring anyway. Wouldn't it be cooler if that solo was still a minor threat to the character?</p><p></p><p>The enjoyment I get out of levelling is from gaining new stuff to play with. Whether that's a new feat or a new power or a new magical item. Bonuses to hit and damage are nice and all, but again, it's all just in an effort to keep up with the Joneses. Essentially, it's pointless.</p><p></p><p>Then you have the fact that by not being able to stack damage sources, you literally free up tons of feat slots. Imagine the cool characters you could make if you didn't have to take Expertise this and Weapon Focus that, and generic NAD increasereruppererblaaaaaaaah!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kzach, post: 5659722, member: 56189"] Ok, I admit, my previous explanation was lame. I was being lazy. Now that I'm bored and looking for something to occupy me, I'll reply properly :D Stacking bonuses causes so many problems in 4e. I can't claim that my alternate rules fix them all as I haven't even begun to test them out. However, on casual evaluation, it seems to certainly combat the bulk of the problem in one simple fix. Take one of the biggest problems with 4e: Twin Strike. You can stack so much damage onto each attack that it has become the centre of the DPR universe. The ability damage being taken out of that equation is next to meaningless. Now try to using it with my rules in play. It's still good, but it will never be the uber-damage beast that makes Orcus whimper and huddle in a corner that it is now. Same goes for charging builds. If Surprising Charge doesn't stack with Vanguard Weapon and you can't add things like Takedown Strike, Backstab, and a host of static damage bonuses to it, suddenly it becomes... ok, cool even, but not the be-all-end-all of DPR builds. Then there's all this nonsense of Expertise feats being required, NAD bonus feats and items being required, all just to keep up to a mathematical curve that was ill-conceived and considered from the very beginning of 4e. Do away with stacking and level-based increases and suddenly it all becomes irrelevant. You maintain a balanced system because the math essentially remains the same over 30 levels. Then imagine how much easier it would be to both DM and play? Instead of adding 200 different sources of damage and hit bonuses, you now have just three (ability + class + highest outside source, whether it be item, power or feat-based). DC's for skill challenges remain the same over thirty levels. Building encounters becomes SOOOO much easier because damage is all at a 1st-level monster base (well, there are exceptions from monster powers but I never said the system was perfect as is). And yet you really lose very little. At the end of the day, level-based anything is just running in place solely to keep up. I've long not seen the point in it. So what if I can swat a 1st-level solo as a 30th-level character? I find that unsatisfying and boring anyway. Wouldn't it be cooler if that solo was still a minor threat to the character? The enjoyment I get out of levelling is from gaining new stuff to play with. Whether that's a new feat or a new power or a new magical item. Bonuses to hit and damage are nice and all, but again, it's all just in an effort to keep up with the Joneses. Essentially, it's pointless. Then you have the fact that by not being able to stack damage sources, you literally free up tons of feat slots. Imagine the cool characters you could make if you didn't have to take Expertise this and Weapon Focus that, and generic NAD increasereruppererblaaaaaaaah! [/QUOTE]
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